Emirates to buy 40 Dreamliners

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Emirates to buy 40 Dreamliners

Unread postby airbusa346 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:06 pm

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Re: Emirates to buy 40 Dreamliners

Unread postby MadMacs » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:55 pm

This was a slap in the face for Airbus who were hoping for an announcement for A380 orders.
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Re: Emirates to buy 40 Dreamliners

Unread postby evanb » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:14 pm

MadMacs wrote:This was a slap in the face for Airbus who were hoping for an announcement for A380 orders.


I'm not sure it was a slap in the face for Airbus who have chosen not to complete against the B787-10 with a new product, but rather just a re-engined A330. The B787-10 is the same size as the B777-200 and A330-300 with a range of 6,400nm (range is compromised since it's just a stretch of the B787-9 without an increase in MTOW). Effectively, Boeing beat the A330-900neo to the deal which is no biggie for Airbus. I think Airbus still have their eyes on a new A380 order and would be more worried about losing an order which competes with the A350. If the order had been for more B777-9 then I think Airbus would be more worried.
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Re: Emirates to buy 40 Dreamliners

Unread postby Glenn L » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:51 pm

so the article says

"But instead, Emirates CEO and Chairman Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al Maktoum explained how the airline considered the Airbus A350 and decided to pick the Boeing 787-10."

so is it the A350 which has lost out to Boeing for a second time with Emirates?

I also figured the B787 and A330 were closer competitors. although i know its not always as straightforward as that with stretched versions etc
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Re: Emirates to buy 40 Dreamliners

Unread postby evanb » Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:21 pm

Glenn L wrote:so the article says

"But instead, Emirates CEO and Chairman Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al Maktoum explained how the airline considered the Airbus A350 and decided to pick the Boeing 787-10."

so is it the A350 which has lost out to Boeing for a second time with Emirates?

I also figured the B787 and A330 were closer competitors. although i know its not always as straightforward as that with stretched versions etc


Emirates considered the A350, but it doesn't mean the A350-900 and B787-10 are close enough to compare or compete (they effectively considered the A350-900 over the A330neo). The A350-900 and B787-10 are a nearly identical in size, but the A350-900 has a range of 8,100nm and the B787-10 only 6,400nm, the result is that the A350-900 is a much heavier aircraft and only be as efficient as the B787-10 over a shorter mission. If you're not looking for the range of the A350-900, the B787-10 is the aircraft for you. However, the mission envelope for the B787-10 is much smaller than the A350-900. Given Dubai's geography, and the mission envelope the A350-900 was never going to be competitive.

Funnily, the A350-900 is replacing the B777-200ER, while the B787-10 is replacing the A330-300. The result is that the A350-900 is most popular in Asia where the range is needed to get to Europe or the US (e.g. Cathay Pacific, Singapore Airlines) or US to Asia (e.g. United, Delta, American) or Europe to Asia (e.g. Lufthansa, Finair).
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Re: Emirates to buy 40 Dreamliners

Unread postby Glenn L » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:05 pm

evanb wrote:
Glenn L wrote:so the article says

"But instead, Emirates CEO and Chairman Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al Maktoum explained how the airline considered the Airbus A350 and decided to pick the Boeing 787-10."

so is it the A350 which has lost out to Boeing for a second time with Emirates?

I also figured the B787 and A330 were closer competitors. although i know its not always as straightforward as that with stretched versions etc


Emirates considered the A350, but it doesn't mean the A350-900 and B787-10 are close enough to compare or compete (they effectively considered the A350-900 over the A330neo). The A350-900 and B787-10 are a nearly identical in size, but the A350-900 has a range of 8,100nm and the B787-10 only 6,400nm, the result is that the A350-900 is a much heavier aircraft and only be as efficient as the B787-10 over a shorter mission. If you're not looking for the range of the A350-900, the B787-10 is the aircraft for you. However, the mission envelope for the B787-10 is much smaller than the A350-900. Given Dubai's geography, and the mission envelope the A350-900 was never going to be competitive.

Funnily, the A350-900 is replacing the B777-200ER, while the B787-10 is replacing the A330-300. The result is that the A350-900 is most popular in Asia where the range is needed to get to Europe or the US (e.g. Cathay Pacific, Singapore Airlines) or US to Asia (e.g. United, Delta, American) or Europe to Asia (e.g. Lufthansa, Finair).


most interesting info and insights, thanks
always enjoy reading your airline posts evanb, very informative
(you got a blog?)
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Re: Emirates to buy 40 Dreamliners

Unread postby Caravan Driver » Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:12 am

Agree- thanks for the interesting insights EvanB.
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Re: Emirates to buy 40 Dreamliners

Unread postby MadMacs » Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:24 pm

Looks like I posted this in the wrong section, so I'll move it here.
This was the reason for my comment

The press release was printed, the media invited, the first dignitaries began filing into the room. Such was the scene on the first day of the Dubai Air Show, when Airbus SE had planned to unveil a keenly awaited lifeline for its A380 super jumbos from the aircraft’s biggest fan: Emirates.

Instead: nothing. In fact, worse than nothing. An initial delay, not unusual at these major signing ceremonies, gave way to confusion. Bewilderment turned to humiliation when a model aircraft was carried into the briefing room and the gray cloth covering it slipped off -- revealing the Boeing Co. logo on its tail.

With the joint Airbus-Emirates announcement on ice, representatives of the U.S. planemaker swooped in instead to take the stage in Room 6 on the upper level of the main exhibition hall. Airbus officials who dominated the room on arrival quietly slipped out during the press conference as their rival landed a stinging blow: Emirates committed to buying $15.1 billion of Boeing’s 787-10 Dreamliners. That was similar to the order value that Airbus had planned.
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Re: Emirates to buy 40 Dreamliners

Unread postby HAAN » Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:09 pm

Emirates was not looking for a long range aircraft but a medium range with a 350 pax hence they went for the B787-10.
Personally i thought they would mix it up between B787-8/9/10 to give a option on low seasonal routes.
The B787-10 is also a lighter aircraft than the A350. Means less PCN issues and landing fees. The 777-8/9 will take over where needed.
Remember the A350/A380 cant have crossed cockpit qualification.....But the B787 and B777-8/9 willl =D> =D> :mrgreen:
Thus Emirates will still only need 2 type of crews. A380 and B787/B777 in the future.
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Re: Emirates to buy 40 Dreamliners

Unread postby evanb » Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:48 pm

HAAN wrote:Emirates was not looking for a long range aircraft but a medium range with a 350 pax hence they went for the B787-10.
Personally i thought they would mix it up between B787-8/9/10 to give a option on low seasonal routes.
The B787-10 is also a lighter aircraft than the A350. Means less PCN issues and landing fees. The 777-8/9 will take over where needed.
Remember the A350/A380 cant have crossed cockpit qualification.....But the B787 and B777-8/9 willl =D> =D> :mrgreen:
Thus Emirates will still only need 2 type of crews. A380 and B787/B777 in the future.


HAAN, totally agree. I'm not surprised they didn't take the B787-8/9 since the Emirates model doesn't have many thiner, longer routes. For shorter thiner routes they seem to have gone all-in on FlyDubai. Is the thought on the inside that FlyDubai will be fully integrated with Emirates but maintain an independent brand?
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Re: Emirates to buy 40 Dreamliners

Unread postby GL » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:30 pm

evanb wrote: Is the thought on the inside that FlyDubai will be fully integrated with Emirates but maintain an independent brand?

Do FlyDubai pilots earn the same as Emirates and are they on the same superiority list? Otherwise I would imagine this integration will give problems - as SAA has been wanting to do with Mango?
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Re: Emirates to buy 40 Dreamliners

Unread postby evanb » Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:22 pm

GL wrote:
evanb wrote: Is the thought on the inside that FlyDubai will be fully integrated with Emirates but maintain an independent brand?

Do FlyDubai pilots earn the same as Emirates and are they on the same superiority list? Otherwise I would imagine this integration will give problems - as SAA has been wanting to do with Mango?


I'm pretty sure they earn less, however, I don't think integration means Emirates and FlyDubai merging and operating as a single entity (e.g. British Airways and Kulula within Comair), but integrating various functions including network planning and revenue management but remaining separate operating entities (e.g. more like British Airways and Iberia). But you raise an important point vis-à-vis SAA and Mango: while it is important for some functions to be integrated (e.g. fleet planning, network planning, revenue management) it is important for Mango to remain a separate entity to exploit its lower cost base.
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Re: Emirates to buy 40 Dreamliners

Unread postby three eighty » Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:46 pm

evanb wrote:
HAAN wrote: Is the thought on the inside that FlyDubai will be fully integrated with Emirates but maintain an independent brand?


Fly Dubai will not be fully integrated. It will remain an extension of Emirates with code share on certain routes. Emirates has needed a replacement for the 330's ever since they were retired and the 787 is a better fit than the 350. It will be used on the regional routes to India, Middle East and North Africa as is required. Anything further than that will be operated by the 777's. Both of which will be utilized to feed the hub and fill the 380's on the trunk routes. Classic hub and spoke.
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Re: Emirates to buy 40 Dreamliners

Unread postby HAAN » Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:41 am

and so yesterday flydubai have ordered 225 B737MAX. :shock:
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Re: Emirates to buy 40 Dreamliners

Unread postby Diesel-3 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:47 pm

Remember the A350/A380 cant have crossed cockpit qualification.....But the B787 and B777-8/9 willl =D> =D> :mrgreen:
Thus Emirates will still only need 2 type of crews. A380 and B787/B777 in the future.


Ummm, Why Cant A350 have CCQ to A380? or vice versa?

Or even why not MFF?



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