Imagine future SAAF large transport option other than A400M

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Re: Imagine future SAAF large transport option other than A400M

Unread post by Walter105 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:03 pm

micmaq wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:52 am
There are great opportunities to buy well maintained second hand ex military C 130s complete with a spares inventory that will serve the SAAF well for many years to come - Just look at what has happened in Canada

The RCAF was hell bent on replacing their CF 18s with Boeing Hornets - Then Boeing got president Trump to impose a 300% tariff on Bombardier's "C" model airliners imported into the USA - This prompted the Canadian Govt to cancel the Hornet purchase

The RCAF then bought 18 ex RAAF F 18s and the order has now been increased to 25 - They come with a complete spares inventory - For commonality the RAAF F 18 are being converted to RCAF CF 18 specs but the changes are minor as they were produced about the same time - The whole fleet, F 18s and CF 18s, are being upgraded to meet to-days requirements

This saved the Canadian taxpayer many millions of $ and opened up a window of opportunity for other aircraft manufacturers (Eurofighter ?) to bid for the RCAF needs into the future

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As I understood it the purchase of the RAAF Hornets is an interim measure to supplement the CF18 fleet that is not at the moment capable of meeting the full mission availability requirments that are placed on Canada by NATO. The fighter procurement program will still go ahead but the only now really European manufacturers still bidding such as Eurofighter and Gripen.
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Re: Imagine future SAAF large transport option other than A400M

Unread post by micmaq » Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:55 pm

Agreed it is a interim measure but the CF 18 fleet will be operational until 2032

JPOM Canada expert the bidders for the next generation will be Lockheed Martin F-35, Boeing Super Hornet, Eurofighter Typhoon (Airbus) and the SAAB Gripen

The Liberal Govt had a change of policy that required a bigger fleet - Besides the NATO commitment ; with the Arctic opening up the Govt wanted to have a big enough fleet to protect Canada from the North - The KC 135 Supertankers can extend the range of the CF 18s to accomplish this mission
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Re: Imagine future SAAF large transport option other than A400M

Unread post by Marius Schrenk » Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:31 pm

MadMacs wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:19 am
I and other than African peace missions, we dont need a large airforce. I think our largest threat will be from within, ala Syria.
We do have a maritime need....the Chinese has 17 fishing vessels stripping the Mozambique channel empty......but I suppose being BRICS that's okay.But I agree with you.3 mil taxpayers cannot afford a modern country.
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Re: Imagine future SAAF large transport option other than A400M

Unread post by Darren » Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:15 pm

Marius Schrenk wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:31 pm
MadMacs wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:19 am
I and other than African peace missions, we dont need a large airforce. I think our largest threat will be from within, ala Syria.
We do have a maritime need....the Chinese has 17 fishing vessels stripping the Mozambique channel empty......but I suppose being BRICS that's okay.But I agree with you.3 mil taxpayers cannot afford a modern country.
This is a common misconception, but fisheries protection is not actually one of the SANDF’s mandated roles. It belongs to the Monitoring, Control, and Surveillance (MCS) division of the Department of Agriculture, Forestry, and Fisheries (DAFF) which has its own fleet of four enforcement ships for the task.

The Navy & Air Force may only assist when requested to by DAFF, and even then their powers of intervention are limited unless they have a DAFF officer (or other law enforcement officer) on board.

This is the same practice most countries follow, with their navies usually only called in for hot pursuits that might be beyond the capabilities of the fisheries monitoring agency.

DAFF’s MCS has far too small a fleet for our EEZ, and like the SANDF is also underfunded.
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Re: Imagine future SAAF large transport option other than A400M

Unread post by V5 - LEO » Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:12 pm

Darren wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:15 pm

DAFF’s MCS has far too small a fleet for our EEZ, and like the SANDF is also underfunded.
....hence my poke that maybe it is time for these forces and agencies in want to calaborate and pool together to get more buying power from there underfunded budgets - but that is a dream to far ...... :arrow:
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Re: Imagine future SAAF large transport option other than A400M

Unread post by Deanw » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:05 pm

Atlantis/AeroRescue tried that with the Dornier 328. It was a fantastic proposal that was only win/win for everyone involved, but it was not to be.
Atlantis demonstrates interim maritime surveillance solution to the SAAF
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Re: Imagine future SAAF large transport option other than A400M

Unread post by micmaq » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:24 pm

What a missed opportunity

What happened to the Dornier 328s
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Re: Imagine future SAAF large transport option other than A400M

Unread post by snoopy » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:34 pm

Kondor-E was launched 19 Dec 2014, by Roskosmos at Baikonur, Site 175, Silo No. 59, with a 3-10 year lifespan.

So...what is it looking at, and what is done with the intel? If DAFF (and other clients) cannot and will not protect SA's interest and enforce it, with that intel - then its of little use any way.

So essentially SA would be looking for a cargo/transporter, that maybe has the additional ad hoc role of a air to air fuel tanker, like the B707s, if it had the money.
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Re: Imagine future SAAF large transport option other than A400M

Unread post by MadMacs » Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:56 pm

The biggest threat to the ANC, in my opinion, is the SANDF. I wonder if they're suffering from African Syndrome where many a government has been overthrown by the military, hence cripple the defence force.
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Re: Imagine future SAAF large transport option other than A400M

Unread post by Deanw » Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:12 pm

Doubt it has anything to do with those in power being scared of the military. That notion is actually an insult to the SANDF and it has proved on more than one occasion that the SANDF is a professional defence force and able to remain independent of the political upheavals. Whilst certain senior ranks may have political ambitions, they are apolitical when it counts.

SA has a myriad of social, health, education and safety issues that take presidence over the military requirement. A military that the majority of South Africans neither know about or care about.

A decade of financial mismanagement has left the country in dire financial stress and a population demanding better living conditions. There just is not the money available to fund the SANDF to the degree that it required.
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Re: Imagine future SAAF large transport option other than A400M

Unread post by Darren » Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:36 pm

Deanw wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:05 pm
Atlantis/AeroRescue tried that with the Dornier 328. It was a fantastic proposal that was only win/win for everyone involved, but it was not to be.
Atlantis demonstrates interim maritime surveillance solution to the SAAF
According to the statement made by the minister later:
The SAAF was approached by Atlantis Aviation in the run-up to the AAD 2016 with the view to showcase the Donier 328.

The SAAF did not make any commitment to acquire these aircrafts after the assessment by our maritime specialists.
I gather there were also issues regarding how a contract like that would fit into the PFMA and DAHB1000. Acquisition & procurement regulations are no joke.
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Re: Imagine future SAAF large transport option other than A400M

Unread post by snoopy » Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:45 pm

Some new developments on the domestic scene, in the land of possibilities; but I guess we'll need a whole stack of them. :twisted:

Open cockpit instead of glass cockpit; to get that wind back in your face again, and ok on gravel strips, and of course probably closer to the affordable Defense budget ....just hasn't taken off yet, being a prototype and all. But then our regime loves those kind of "in development" purchases, dont they?

Photo taken from UPENDO side as opposed to the CLOSEDO side.

Image
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Re: Imagine future SAAF large transport option other than A400M

Unread post by V5 - LEO » Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:40 pm

...that is one beefed up undercarriage tough enough for Goma =D> =D> :D
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Re: Imagine future SAAF large transport option other than A400M

Unread post by snoopy » Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:05 am

:twisted: :lol: ja, just have to adjust the power to mass ratio in development...maybe test it with a few troops on-board to shift the COG on the runway run?

Got a nice R lever for reverse thrust also
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