Glidings Best kept Secret

Aviation chatter - For ALL Pilots and Aviation Enthusiasts

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Rebelrabbit
Take off Clearance
Posts: 146
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 7:40 pm
Closest Airfield: EHAM
Location: Uithoorn, Holland
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Glidings Best kept Secret

Unread post by Rebelrabbit » Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:28 pm

15 HOURS

15 HOURS

15 HOURS taken OFF your PPL course!

... ek se maar net...

Thank you for that nugget of magic Meneer!

rr
User avatar
pwnel
Frequent AvComer
Posts: 925
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:06 pm
Closest Airfield: KTEB
Location: Manhattan, NY
Has liked: 32 times
Been liked: 34 times

Re: Glidings Best kept Secret

Unread post by pwnel » Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:52 pm

[quote="GL"]Gliding is sexy - look at movies like The Tomas Crown affair - both times - and in books like 50 Shades of Grey
[/quote]

GL read 50 Shades of Grey? Bloody hell, I thought it was meant for bored housewives. What's becoming of our aviation journalists? :twisted: :twisted:
FAA ASEL COM (IF), MCSA SAR member, flies out of FACT, KBLM (Monmouth Exec, NJ - USA).
Mooney 231
User avatar
GL
Niner Tousand
Niner Tousand
Posts: 9204
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:08 am
Closest Airfield: FACT
Location: Lost for words
Has liked: 40 times
Been liked: 96 times

Re: Glidings Best kept Secret

Unread post by GL » Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:03 pm

pwnel wrote:
GL wrote:Gliding is sexy - look at movies like The Tomas Crown affair - both times - and in books like 50 Shades of Grey
GL read 50 Shades of Grey? Bloody hell, I thought it was meant for bored housewives. What's becoming of our aviation journalists? :twisted: :twisted:

Hehe - i wondered if anyone would nibble that - not only have i read all three - but i read them on a cruise liner around the Aegean. In a few days i turn 55 so I am officially an old fart - and right now having had failing bits of my anatamoy hacked out and not having a flying medical - i feel that way. :(
Our body is made to move, and our mind is made to connect with other people.
– Sjur Nesheim, Norwegian mountaineer

The essentials to happiness:
• someone to love,
• something to do,
• something to hope for

Guy Leitch
User avatar
pwnel
Frequent AvComer
Posts: 925
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:06 pm
Closest Airfield: KTEB
Location: Manhattan, NY
Has liked: 32 times
Been liked: 34 times

Re: Glidings Best kept Secret

Unread post by pwnel » Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:57 pm

Sorry about the flying medical (and hijack), all the best for getting it back GL.
FAA ASEL COM (IF), MCSA SAR member, flies out of FACT, KBLM (Monmouth Exec, NJ - USA).
Mooney 231
Superfueler
Frequent AvComer
Posts: 695
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:49 pm
Closest Airfield: KMIA or on the Farm
Location: White River
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Glidings Best kept Secret

Unread post by Superfueler » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:37 pm

First I heard of winch launch and I assumed it was a tractor pulling a glider across a bumpy field on a windy day...so I googled and holy skank 0-1900 FT in 45 seconds :shock: http://youtu.be/v2Qh95I_YM0
User avatar
ARM505
FREDA checks
Posts: 373
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 10:33 pm
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 6 times

Re: Glidings Best kept Secret

Unread post by ARM505 » Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:11 am

I would love to glide - I did an intro and it was awesome. It's also affordable.

But there is absolutely zero chance of having a career in aviation (ie work most weekends), a family, and going gliding on a regular basis from Cape Town. None. It's hardly surprising that so few actually take it up on a regular basis if you ask me - it's not the 'instant gratification' generation, it's the generation that is losing weekends, and has no time for such time-consuming activities IMHO.
User avatar
kudu177
1k poster
1k poster
Posts: 1846
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 12:57 pm
Closest Airfield: Rand
Location: Jo'burg
Has liked: 51 times
Been liked: 10 times

Re: Glidings Best kept Secret

Unread post by kudu177 » Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:56 am

ARM505 wrote:I would love to glide - I did an intro and it was awesome. It's also affordable.

But there is absolutely zero chance of having a career in aviation (ie work most weekends), a family, and going gliding on a regular basis from Cape Town. None. It's hardly surprising that so few actually take it up on a regular basis if you ask me - it's not the 'instant gratification' generation, it's the generation that is losing weekends, and has no time for such time-consuming activities IMHO.
Ja, this is very true.

Maybe what you need is one of these: the BUG (Basic Ultralight Glider). Homebuilt from plans although I understand there is also a kit from a third party builder. It seems to be a way into gliding that by very nature of the aircraft itself is supposed to free up that otherwise "tedious" process

Now where would this fit into the mix when it comes to training: do you need a GPL or an HGPL to fly it? If the latter, is the training process more easily accessible than conventional gliding?

And what would the CAA have to say about these craft?
BUG.jpg
http://m-sandlin.info/

I like the whole approach - low tech, low inertia, low cost. These are pictures of the PIG (Primary Instruction Glider).
PP-landing2.jpg

pp-Ontruk2.jpg
From the web page: "... one of two Superfloaters that launched by rolling off Crestline on Sunday, Sept. 23, 2012 (from the Crestline Soaring Website). Both flights were 5 hours long and flown in company with hang gliders, leading to a good deal of discussion about relative performance ... From my experiences I suspect that the mechanical controls of an airchair are an advantage over hang gliders in thermalling because they can be used continuously and fully, unlike arm controlled thermalling where you have to hold back and under-control in order to prevent exhaustion."

5 hours!

And who wouldn't want to fly like this?
SD%20Union.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by kudu177 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
Nav is a good life lesson: pick a point on the horizon and go there
User avatar
Groenie
Engine Cranking
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:41 am
Closest Airfield: FACT
Location: FACT Next to H
Has liked: 1 time
Been liked: 0

Re: Glidings Best kept Secret

Unread post by Groenie » Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:08 am

117 wrote:
johanp wrote:
Groenie wrote:I would absolutely love to get involved with gliding. If anybody can give an estimate of the costs involved when starting from scratch it would be greatly appreciated? I am in Bellville, so Worchester is probably the place to be, unless there is somewhere else I don’t know of. :D
I would also be very interested to see such an estimate. If you're in Bellville, CGC (Worcester) is the closest, and we can organize a rideshare to save on fuel (and hopefully make the trip less boring)... 3.0 hours in the car for every day's flying, sheesh! :shock:

I went for an intro flight this past weekend - it was fantastic! (thanks to smittiefish, Sarel and the other kind folks of CGC). Although I'll never ever ever again have a glass of wine the day before flying though. Eight hours bottle to throttle my goodness... should be 48 hours per drink...! We spent, what, 30 minutes in the air (I don't think we ever got higher than 4000 ft) and I had a roaring hangover for the rest of the day. ONE glass of wine! And I weigh nearly a 100 kilo's! Aikona...

Anyway, I really liked what I saw there. As a zero-hour-wannabe-someday-PPL-in-training, I arrived there to find that the daily inspection has been going on for about an hour already, and then the flying only started about an hour after I got there. I watched as much of it as I could, and it certainly seemed like everything got given a really thorough going over. Twice (okay maybe not EVERYTHING - but it sure seemed like each plane did get looked over by at least two people). This after the same people had been flying the same gliders the day before. Even softness told me afterwards that watching all this made her feel all warm and fuzzy about the safety-mindedness.
CGC rates for joining are as follows:

First payment to join - R 3 530 (once off), comprised of the following:

R 2 000 - Once off joining fee, non refundable
R 1030 - SSSA (R 750) and Aeroclub ( R330) association annual fee (payable by yourself every year there after)
R 450 - goes towards your flying account to be in credit

There after monthly membership fee's are R 295 per month.

Once you have joined, INSTRUCTION IS FREE.

Glider hire for training in the Ask13's is charged at R 3.15 per minute. Now, here comes the interesting part. There is no set fee (read hours) that you need to do before going solo. It's not a PPL school where you need to complete 45 hours before your ticket is given to you. In gliding, you are sent solo ONLY when you are competent. So it could take you as little as 10 hours, or as much as you need. Launch costs behind the tug is R28 per minute.

Lets make an example of 30 launches at 30min each flight:

30 aerotows at (average 8min aerotow each) - R 6 720
30 flights (at 30min in the front seat) - R 2 835

Total: R 9 555 (works out to R 637 per hour flown vs. R 1 000+ per hour for ppl with a minimum of 45 hours to be flown = R 45 000 +). Disclaimer - this is only an example. Going solo is entirely up to the individuals competence and not based on these figures, but this above is a good indication.

There are cheaper means of launching, by winch for example, and that is charged at R 100 a launch including the hire of the glider. Also, there are many 2 seater ships at the club which are owned by instructors - so getting to know the owners and bumming a free ride also reduces the cost of learning how to fly.

The all important question: How long (weekends/months) will it take you to learn how to fly a glider? I dunno, thats entirely up to you as an individual, the amount of free time (read weekends) you have, how dedicated you are etc.

Ancillary costs: You'll need a class 4 medical (I have no idea of the doctors rates, but expect around R 1000), a restricted radio license (again, no idea of cost these days), RAASA endorsed license (once you obtain your ticket) see http://www.raasa.co.za, travel, text books (there are various available on amazon) etc.

Going solo: Once you have solo'd on the k13, you will burn a few rides on your own in the 2 seater whilst an instructor keeps a beady eye on your flying. You will then be allowed to convert onto the single seater (at R 3.15 per minute) to complete the final stages of your training by yourself, whilst still under supervision (ie: You will need to complete minimum 40 launches total, total 6 hours solo flying, 50km out and return, an outlanding, written theory exam). Once that is complete, you will be given a cross check flight by one of the instructors, as well as completing a practical flight test before being signed off for your GPL.

Gliding is a selfish sport: It takes at least 4 people on the ground to launch you, and then you are the only one to enjoy the rewards. So in return, you will be allotted onto the duty roster at roughly 6 week intervals to give back assistance in helping others fly (normally its one day only on a weekend).
Gliding is also very difficult to book slot times for training, sometimes weather does not play the part for soaring, and hence a slot time could be missed. Understanding of this (not being able to do slot times) is the key to gliding. Its also a sport where you need to get involved in club operations when you start. I dont mean getting onto the committee, but I mean getting involved to help clean, prep, DI, get things ready for the day's flying. Doing this will also teach you to respect the fleet, club, fellow members etc. Sitting on the side lines watching this happen will not get you into the air quicker. Its not a pitch up at a specific time, pay, fly, go home sport like PPL - its an interactive sport which needs hands on from the start. Just remember, instructors in gliding give their time for FREE to teach you how to fly, they get involved not because they get paid, but because they have a passion to the sport. They don't like to see (or hear) about tyre kickers that just want to pitch up, fly and go home, hence it is encouraged to get involved when you join the club to assist and get yourself flying.

@Zimba: With regards to PPL converting onto gliding: You'll need to join your local club, go through the patter of a student. Obviously it will be a lot faster in the competency department because you should know the effects of controls, be able to fly straight and level, turning, radio work, basic met, navigation, air law etc . You'll have to learn how to use your feet and the biggest thing will be energy management whilst flying and in the circuit. So it should be a simple process, but again, it depends on you and your experience, etc. I have no idea on the rates etc at Brits. Get hold of PO on Avcom for more info.

For more info on your nearest club etc, please visit http://www.sssa.org.za or viewtopic.php?f=197&t=89482

Hope this info helps

Cheers
117
Thanx 117. That was very comprehensive, informative and helpfull. Hope to see you guys soon :D
User avatar
johanp
Post Take off checks
Posts: 228
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:48 am
Closest Airfield: FAFK
Location: Cape Town
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 1 time

Re: Glidings Best kept Secret

Unread post by johanp » Mon May 06, 2013 8:50 am

So I was chatting to someone at work about gliding, and the question came up: Does gliding tend to happen in seasons through the year? e.g. in Cape Town, I can imagine winter isn't a great time for gliding. What's winter like in Worcester?
Johan
User avatar
kamikaze
Frequent AvComer
Posts: 891
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:56 am
Closest Airfield: Rand Airport
Location: Johannesburg
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Glidings Best kept Secret

Unread post by kamikaze » Mon May 06, 2013 9:40 am

i would love to give gliding a go, and came close to doing so at orient, but was told that to get your GPL you have to become a gopher and stand around all day long at the airfield "assisting" by holding wings and tending to general stuff like take-offs and landings. then IF you are lucky enough you'd get a chance to fly, but with a stern warning to keep it short as there is only one training glider and the other guys also want a turn.

i was also told that the orient crowd are very "set in their ways" and that there was no other way to get into gliding other than to grovel your way up, but maybe things have changed since?

my first 8 years of flying was done on a paraglider (and now i fly commercially) so it would make sense to get into gliding, but i couldn't be bothered to stand in the sun all day watching other people fly, when in contrast, i can fly all day long whenever i please with my paraglider.

i've thermalled a cessna 206 before, but it's a reluctant sailplane :lol:
Kobus Oosthuizen

There are no shortcuts, only hard work.
p38
Take off Clearance
Posts: 129
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:50 pm
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 3 times

Re: Glidings Best kept Secret

Unread post by p38 » Mon May 06, 2013 10:02 am

johanp wrote:So I was chatting to someone at work about gliding, and the question came up: Does gliding tend to happen in seasons through the year? e.g. in Cape Town, I can imagine winter isn't a great time for gliding. What's winter like in Worcester?
often it can be raining in Cape Town, and the folks are gliding in Worcester. The duttoit's kloof mountains help keep the weather at bay most times.

So gliding at Worcester happens pretty much all year round, summer is thermic, winter is ridge and wave
User avatar
Brend@n
Flying to unmanned aerodrome
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 4:12 pm
Closest Airfield: FAOR FARA
Location: Benoni North
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Glidings Best kept Secret

Unread post by Brend@n » Mon May 06, 2013 11:43 am

The best kept secret are the hookers :D
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Brendan
User avatar
stojan
Reaching altitude
Posts: 230
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 1:51 pm
Closest Airfield: FALA and Eagles Creek
Location: Fourways, Gauteng
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Glidings Best kept Secret

Unread post by stojan » Mon May 06, 2013 12:07 pm

Hi Kamikaze

It is unfortunate that you heard all these negative things about gliding in general and the "Orient crowd" (aka Magalies Gliding Club) in particular. They can not be farther from the truth. While it is correct that gliding requires a significantly greater time investment than power flying, it is by no means due to someones bad temper or having an "in" with the correct crowd. That insinuation is utter hogwash.

The simple truth of the matter is: As soon as anyone joins the club he/she is given a "intro pack" (contains the log book, the student training log, the airfield procedures, other useful info as well as some flying theory stuff), he/she is rostered for club duty (every 6 weeks or so) and is told to go fly as often as and much as possible. When you are at the club to fly you are expected to assist others in the same manner that they will assist you when its your turn to fly. With three G103 Twin Astirs available for training, a student will get AT LEAST one flight per day even if its the busiest day with a dozen students around...no ass kissing required!

Hope this helps in setting the record straight. Feel free to PM me should you wish to arrange a visit to Orient at any time (or go to: www.mgc.org.za)
CPL ME/IR
Fournier RF4D
User avatar
IcarusZulu
Engine full power confirmed
Posts: 179
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 7:20 pm
Closest Airfield: Magalies Gliding Club
Location: Fourways, Gauteng
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Glidings Best kept Secret

Unread post by IcarusZulu » Mon May 06, 2013 12:07 pm

kamikaze wrote:i would love to give gliding a go, and came close to doing so at orient, but was told that to get your GPL you have to become a gopher and stand around all day long at the airfield "assisting" by holding wings and tending to general stuff like take-offs and landings. then IF you are lucky enough you'd get a chance to fly, but with a stern warning to keep it short as there is only one training glider and the other guys also want a turn.

i was also told that the orient crowd are very "set in their ways" and that there was no other way to get into gliding other than to grovel your way up, but maybe things have changed since?

my first 8 years of flying was done on a paraglider (and now i fly commercially) so it would make sense to get into gliding, but i couldn't be bothered to stand in the sun all day watching other people fly, when in contrast, i can fly all day long whenever i please with my paraglider.

i've thermalled a cessna 206 before, but it's a reluctant sailplane :lol:
Now is the time to come gliding at MGC Orient. We have 3 twin gliders and 3 single gliders for training. Currently there are not too many students so you will learn and progress fast. Being a paraglider pilot will help as you already understand thermals and trigger points etc. If you have your ppl you will solo very quick compared to someone who has never flown before.
Engines who needs em anyhow?

ZS-GPD, ZS-GXA
User avatar
kamikaze
Frequent AvComer
Posts: 891
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:56 am
Closest Airfield: Rand Airport
Location: Johannesburg
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Glidings Best kept Secret

Unread post by kamikaze » Mon May 06, 2013 1:50 pm

I'm SUPER keen!
Kobus Oosthuizen

There are no shortcuts, only hard work.

Return to “General Aviation Chatter”