Hour-building on NPL

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Hour-building on NPL

Unread post by fgerber » Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:18 pm

Hi All,

Does anyone know whether can I do hour-building towards a CPL on a NPL (LSA)?

I plan on doing my NPL (with a LSA aircraft), but not necessarily my PPL straight away after that, so am wondering if the hours I fly before doing my PPL, but with my NPL completed, would count if I decided to one day do my CPL?

I know while doing the 35 hours (or more) for the NPL license, only 30 would count towards a PPL. The hours I fly in between (not for training) after receiving the NPL license but before commencing my PPL training I mean - would they count towards a CPL?

The CAA is not answering me regarding this.

Thanks
Last edited by fgerber on Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hour-building on NPL

Unread post by lampiesJR » Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:27 pm

I’m not 100% sure but I think there’s a law that states the aircraft must have an all up weight of over 450kgs for CPL hours
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Re: Hour-building on NPL

Unread post by chrisbe20 » Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:33 am

Also not 100% sure, but from what I remember when I was instructing some years back...the CPL students that where hour building had to use the Non LSA aircraft we had for hours gained towards a CPL.

As mentioned, not 100 percent sure as I can't remember and things might have changed. Best bet is to check with the CAA and hopefully someone who knows anything about our ever changing and contradictive aviation law can assist you. :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Re: Hour-building on NPL

Unread post by ABW » Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:30 am

I would think the SA CAA would require what the FAA require.
For a commercial pilots Licence the FAA require you to be 18 with a private Licence and 250 hours total. Hours required in an airplane are defined below.

No weights mentioned with FAA, it’s about time in powered aircraft and airplanes. A hot air ballon is defined as a powered aircraft. If you had time in a balloon those hours can certainly count towards your total hours.

Aeronautical experience.
(a) For an airplane single-engine rating. Except as provided in paragraph (i) of this section, a person who applies for a commercial pilot certificate with an airplane category and single-engine class rating must log at least 250 hours of flight time as a pilot that consists of at least:

(1) 100 hours in powered aircraft, of which 50 hours must be in airplanes.

(2) 100 hours of pilot-in-command flight time, which includes at least—

(i) 50 hours in airplanes; and

(ii) 50 hours in cross-country flight of which at least 10 hours must be in airplanes.

(3) 20 hours of training on the areas of operation listed in §61.127(b)(1) of this part that includes at least—

(i) Ten hours of instrument training using a view-limiting device including attitude instrument flying, partial panel skills, recovery from unusual flight attitudes, and intercepting and tracking navigational systems. Five hours of the 10 hours required on instrument training must be in a single engine airplane;

(ii) 10 hours of training in a complex airplane, a turbine-powered airplane, or a technically advanced airplane (TAA) that meets the requirements of paragraph (j) of this section, or any combination thereof. The airplane must be appropriate to land or sea for the rating sought;

(iii) One 2-hour cross country flight in a single engine airplane in daytime conditions that consists of a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure;

(iv) One 2-hour cross country flight in a single engine airplane in nighttime conditions that consists of a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

(v) Three hours in a single-engine airplane with an authorized instructor in preparation for the practical test within the preceding 2 calendar months from the month of the test.

(4) Ten hours of solo flight time in a single engine airplane or 10 hours of flight time performing the duties of pilot in command in a single engine airplane with an authorized instructor on board (either of which may be credited towards the flight time requirement under paragraph (a)(2) of this section), on the areas of operation listed under §61.127(b)(1) that include—

(i) One cross-country flight of not less than 300 nautical miles total distance, with landings at a minimum of three points, one of which is a straight-line distance of at least 250 nautical miles from the original departure point. However, if this requirement is being met in Hawaii, the longest segment need only have a straight-line distance of at least 150 nautical miles; and

(ii) 5 hours in night VFR conditions with 10 takeoffs and 10 landings (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern) at an airport with an operating control tower.
Last edited by ABW on Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hour-building on NPL

Unread post by Multirotordronepilot » Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:50 am

lampiesJR wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:27 pm
I’m not 100% sure but I think there’s a law that states the aircraft must have an all up weight of over 450kgs for CPL hours
LSA / NPL required aircraft are over 450kg. Infact 450kg is the threshold weight. So Fgerber the answer to your question is yes, in fact its pretty common
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Re: Hour-building on NPL

Unread post by Air Bear » Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:41 am

Multirotordronepilot wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:50 am
lampiesJR wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:27 pm
I’m not 100% sure but I think there’s a law that states the aircraft must have an all up weight of over 450kgs for CPL hours
LSA / NPL required aircraft are over 450kg. Infact 450kg is the threshold weight. So Fgerber the answer to your question is yes, in fact its pretty common
Surprisingly the 450KG threshold weight limitation is only mentioned in ATPL hour requirements and not in CPL
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Re: Hour-building on NPL

Unread post by ABW » Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:53 am

No weights mentioned with FAA, it’s about time in powered aircraft and airplanes. A hot air ballon is defined as a powered aircraft. If you had time in a balloon those hours can certainly count towards your total hours for a commercial in an airplane.
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Re: Hour-building on NPL

Unread post by STEEL » Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:08 am

ABW wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:53 am
No weights mentioned with FAA, it’s about time in powered aircraft and airplanes. A hot air ballon is defined as a powered aircraft. If you had time in a balloon those hours can certainly count towards your total hours for a commercial in an airplane.
A balloon is a "lighter then air" aircraft and has "Right of way" over a Powered aircraft.
We learn that in Airlaw.

I have never heard of it referred to as a powered aircraft...
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Re: Hour-building on NPL

Unread post by fgerber » Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:34 am

Thanks All for the advice!!

Yes the plane must be above 450kg, that much was confirmed by the CAA. Whether it is stated in the law somewhere or not, that is their stance on the matter.

Thanks Multirotordronepilot (phew..... :) ). Will try and get in in writing from the CAA as well.

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Re: Hour-building on NPL

Unread post by ABW » Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:14 am

STEEL wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:08 am
ABW wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:53 am
No weights mentioned with FAA, it’s about time in powered aircraft and airplanes. A hot air ballon is defined as a powered aircraft. If you had time in a balloon those hours can certainly count towards your total hours for a commercial in an airplane.
A balloon is a "lighter then air" aircraft and has "Right of way" over a Powered aircraft.
We learn that in Airlaw.

I have never heard of it referred to as a powered aircraft...
Sorry, quite correct Steel. Piloting a hot air balloon ‘lighter than air’ category would still count towards total hours though with the FAA.
So in SA I would assume hours in a LSA on an NPL would count towards total hours for a commercial.

Sec. 61.5

Certificates and ratings issued under this part.

(b) The following ratings are placed on a pilot certificate (other than student pilot) when an applicant satisfactorily accomplishes the training and certification requirements for the rating sought:

(1) Aircraft category ratings--

(i) Airplane.
(ii) Rotorcraft.
(iii) Glider.
(iv) Lighter-than-air.
(v) Powered-lift.
(vi) Powered parachute.
(vii) Weight-shift-control aircraft.
(2) Airplane class ratings--

(i) Single-engine land.
(ii) Multiengine land.
(iii) Single-engine sea.
(iv) Multiengine sea.
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Re: Hour-building on NPL

Unread post by Multirotordronepilot » Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:09 pm

fgerber wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:18 pm
Hi All,

Does anyone know whether can I do hour-building towards a CPL on a NPL (LSA)?

I plan on doing my NPL (with a LSA aircraft), but not necessarily my PPL straight away after that, so am wondering if the hours I fly before doing my PPL, but with my NPL completed, would count if I decided to one day do my CPL?

I know while doing the 35 hours (or more) for the NPL license, only 30 would count towards a PPL. The hours after receiving the NPL license.

The CAA is not answering me regarding this.

Thanks
Frans thanks for your pm, after reading your question a bit better it seems I did not understand it the way you intended.
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Re: Hour-building on NPL

Unread post by fgerber » Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:12 pm

Not a problem Trevor, I appreciate everyone's feedback and advice!

My question might not have been phrased correctly - what I meant was:

Just to confirm though, so the hours flown after completion of my national pilot license (all on the LSA I intend buying) will count towards a commercial pilot license, even though I don't have a private pilot license yet?
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Re: Hour-building on NPL

Unread post by heisan » Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:07 am

fgerber wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:12 pm
Not a problem Trevor, I appreciate everyone's feedback and advice!

My question might not have been phrased correctly - what I meant was:

Just to confirm though, so the hours flown after completion of my national pilot license (all on the LSA I intend buying) will count towards a commercial pilot license, even though I don't have a private pilot license yet?
The more I look at it, the more I think the CAA will insist that the hours are logged under Part 61... So, only hours after acquiring your PPL (and getting the type endorsed on your PPL license) would count.

Don't stake your career on claiming those hours unless you can get confirmation from the CAA.
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Re: Hour-building on NPL

Unread post by fgerber » Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:23 am

Thanks Justin!
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Re: Hour-building on NPL

Unread post by fgerber » Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:39 am

Hi All,

Just thought I would update you and maybe help someone else in the process.

I received an email from the CAA stating that hours flown are hours flown, whether they be on NPL, PPL or neither. If you fly 70 hours to receive your NPL. all 70 will count towards a CPL, provided the airplane is above 450kg.

And as for another question I had about minimum instrument requirements (I was told one of the airplanes I was looking at had inadequate instruments initially :roll: ), I also received an email from the CAA stating that as long as the airplane is above 450kg and is certified to fly, then the instruments are adequate for hour-building towards a CPL, whatever they may be. Which makes 100% sense, of course.

It took me about 3-4 months to eventually get something in writing from them, and a lot of arguing, but finally.......

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