Pilot Excess Insurance

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George
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Pilot Excess Insurance

Unread post by George » Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:59 pm

Had to get quote for pilot excess as I am going to fly some else's aerie soon after not having it for many years.

I am told that the "standard pilot excess insurance" which when I was training some years back was known as the DJ&A excess cover, now covers your own aeries as well? This was not the case in the past. In past owner excess (or a reduction of the excess on aircraft you owned and flew) was more expensive and tied to a particular aerie. Thus for eg if you owned more than 1 you would need to take out the excess insurance "reduction" on each in order to reduce the excess from R20'000 to R4'000 per engine.

EG (Prem per annum)
:arrow: C182RG deductible (excess) from R20'000 to R4'000 - R2,400
:arrow: RV4 deductible (excess) from R20'000 to R4'000 - R2,400
:arrow: Albatross deductible (excess) from R40'000 to R8'000 - R4'800
Total for the 3 aeries R9'600, but there is still excess of R4'000 per engine.
VS
"New" Pilot excess insurance which now covers all the above (and every other Piston under 5700kg's I fly) for R2'770 pa vs R9'600 pa and no excess? What am I missing?

Can anyone confirm or has anyone else noticed this and if so, why when the change cam about a bigger song and dance was not made about it? :wink:
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dilligaf
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Unread post by dilligaf » Thu Aug 02, 2007 6:40 pm

jcvb

I wasn't aware that the single excess cover premium applied to more than one aircraft insured by someone with DJA.

That aside, I don't quite follow what this means when flying someone else's aerie. Are you saying :

- if you have taken out DJA's excess insurance on your aeroplane(s) you are also covered for the excess flying other peoples' aircraft ?

or

- if you have taken out DJA's excess insurance on your aeroplane(s) it also applies to anyone else flying those aeroplanes ? (which is how I understood it).

Or are there 2 types of excess cover (aircraft and pilot) ?

Just want to be sure because I'll be asking the same of insurers tomorrow.
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Unread post by Dawlish » Thu Aug 02, 2007 7:17 pm

As I understand it:

DJ&A's "Pilot Excess" insurance ONLY covered aircraft that you did not own.

If you owned an aircraft, and wanted to insure the excess, you would have to buy separate excess insurance for that specific aircraft - let's call that "Owner's Excess".

So, theoretically, you could have "Pilot's Excess" to cover non-owned aircraft that you flew, and "Owner's Excess" for each individual aircraft that you owned.

Now, DJ&A have extended the "Pilot Excess" product to include aircraft owned by the person holding the insurance.

So, depending on whether you own your own aircraft AND fly other people's aircraft, this represents a huge improvement in coverage, together with a reduction in cost.

If you carry "Owner's Excess" on your own 'plane, that might also cover other people flying your aircraft, depending on how the coverage was arranged. But "Owner's Excess" usually insured only 90% of the excess, leaving a 10% proportion uninsured. "Pilot Excess" covers the entire excess, assuming you've got sufficient coverage.

Hope this makes sense. I'm sure the guys at DJ&A will explain it better than I can.
George
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Unread post by George » Thu Aug 02, 2007 7:20 pm

dilligaf

As I understand it there are 2 types.
Pilot excess (Linked to the pilot regardless of plane flown) &
Owners excess (Linked to aircraft regardless of pilot)

Pilot excess cover is taken by most students and H&F's. It is to cover the excess amount which is due in the event of a claim regardless of plane and is tied to the Pilot. It covers pilot's to fly any piston aerie they are rated on with MAUW >450kgs & <5700kgs and the insurance will payout to a max of the agreed amount of the excess due by the owner in the event of a claim. (Am told norm is R20'000 per engine, thus single R20K, twin R40K excess, but the higher the owner makes the excess the cheaper the insurance becomes and some schools and owners have higher excesses. Usually when you sign on at H&F operation they will require proof of a min of xxx Pilot's excess insurance. When I last had it, it was in region of R35K at the school I flew from even if you only flew singles). Previously this pilot's cover specifically excluded a pilot when flying his own aircraft. (ie When Pilot and Owner were same person) I have queried "own" in the past but never to absolute conclusion. :oops: :oops: :oops: (ie. If you have pilot excess insurance (in own name) and fly a plane owned by your company who pays the insurance are you the owner or is the company and would this cover be applicable? Easy answer has always been if it "your" aerie then no cover, but I am not convinced. Company is a juristic person and thus I contend that this cover would only be "void" where the Pilot's excess insurance and the aircraft owner's details are exactly the same. Would not like to test it though as I am sure it will be a moot point and lawyers will make more than the excess in any case.)

Owners excess is cover to reduce the excess amount on a specific aircraft usually taken by the owner of that aircraft and it is tied to that aircraft regardless of pilot.

In the RV4 eg above, if I take owners cover @ R2'400 pa and there is a claim the excess ON THAT AIRCRAFT is R4'000 vs R20'000 without it regardless of the pilot flying it provided he is catered for in the policy. Previously I was told that it is impossible to insure all the risk (ie no excess), but based on info today that no longer seems to be the case.
I wasn't aware that the single excess cover premium applied to more than one aircraft insured by someone with DJA.

That aside, I don't quite follow what this means when flying someone else's aerie. Are you saying :

- if you have taken out DJA's excess insurance on your aeroplane(s) you are also covered for the excess flying other peoples' aircraft ?

or

- if you have taken out DJA's excess insurance on your aeroplane(s) it also applies to anyone else flying those aeroplanes ? (which is how I understood it).

Or are there 2 types of excess cover (aircraft and pilot) ?

Just want to be sure because I'll be asking the same of insurers tomorrow.
Think you referring to Owners Excess above which relates only to the aircraft it taken on. Pilot's excess is not linked to aircraft, but rather the Pilot.

Hope that answer's it.

Man I hate insurance. Why is it always so complicated. (All I want to know is what will it cost me to ensure I get a replacement aerie if this one gets pranged.) :wink:
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Unread post by George » Thu Aug 02, 2007 7:23 pm

Dawlish

Yip - That's how I understand it now. When did it change? (DJ&A cover on own aerie?) :wink:
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Unread post by dilligaf » Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:40 pm

Got it, thanks.

When I did my PPL I used club aircraft, so had to join the "excess fund" which covered the excess on club aircraft only.

When I insured the 182, DJ&A offered the "Owner's excess" cover as an option. As a newbie owner I assumed it was a long-standing thing.

Your post made me wonder if I'd scored a bargain and got free "Pilot's excess" cover at the same time. :wink:

D
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Unread post by George » Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:49 pm

Nope, as they say nothing for nothing, although this new pilot's excess on owner aeries does seem a bit like nothing for nothing. Under correction but it appears that the pilot's excess insurance will (if my understanding is correct) cover 100% of the "loss" (excess or deductible via pilot's excess and balance via owners hull, war & all risks insurance). If so pilots excess is far cheaper than the Owners excess, especially if you have more than 1 aerie. I still think I am missing something? :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Unread post by dilligaf » Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:17 am

I think you answered your own question - "nothing for nothing :wink: ". They're sharper than that, which is why "Pilot's excess" excludes "Owner" aeries.....more $$$$
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Unread post by Dawlish » Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:17 am

jcvb wrote:Dawlish

Yip - That's how I understand it now. When did it change? (DJ&A cover on own aerie?) :wink:
I spoke to Veronica at DJA (she runs the Pilot Excess programme) and she told me that, from 1 July, all Pilot Excess policies include "owned" aircraft.

Remember that the Pilot Excess cover is specific to a pilot, not an aircraft.

If you take "Owners Excess", it is specific to an aircraft, but may cover more than one pilot flying that aircraft.
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Unread post by dilligaf » Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:07 am

I had this all wrong. Time to call and check the numbers again.....thanks for the feedback.
George
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Unread post by George » Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:03 am

dilligaf wrote:I think you answered your own question - "nothing for nothing :wink: ". They're sharper than that, which is why "Pilot's excess" excludes "Owner" aeries.....more $$$$
Yip that the way it used to be, but I got same as Dawlish from Veronica this morning both telephonically and in writing. :lol: :lol:

My excess for R40K app is now in.... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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Re: Pilot Excess Insurance

Unread post by Andries » Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:50 pm

Good evening.
What does excess insurance cover you for if flying at a flight school.
Hope someone can help me.
Thanks
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Re: Pilot Excess Insurance

Unread post by JCA » Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:49 pm

Andries wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:50 pm
Good evening.
What does excess insurance cover you for if flying at a flight school.
Hope someone can help me.
Thanks
Call DJA and ask for Natasha.
She will tell you everything you need to know.

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