First aircraft wanted

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Tangowhiskyxray
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First aircraft wanted

Unread post by Tangowhiskyxray » Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:05 pm

Hi guys,

I am busy doing my PPL A.
What will you guys recommend for a first aircraft?
I do not know aircraft that well so I am jumping to every little bit of knowledge I can get. Here is a lot of very experienced guys on the forum, please give some advise or tips!
I am working on a tight budget 350- 450k so I would want to try and avoid costly mistakes.
I also like the idea of a stert sleper :D

Any help in this regard will be highly appreciated. And if you have an aerie that is gathering dust please send a pm.

Thanks
TWX
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Re: First aircraft wanted

Unread post by Jean Crous » Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:10 pm

Tangowhiskyxray wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:05 pm
Hi guys,

I am busy doing my PPL A.
What will you guys recommend for a first aircraft?
I do not know aircraft that well so I am jumping to every little bit of knowledge I can get. Here is a lot of very experienced guys on the forum, please give some advise or tips!
I am working on a tight budget 350- 450k so I would want to try and avoid costly mistakes.
I also like the idea of a stert sleper :D

Any help in this regard will be highly appreciated. And if you have an aerie that is gathering dust please send a pm.

Thanks
TWX
If you can tell us if it must be either Type Certified, or Non Type Certified,2 seats or 4 seats, then it can narrow down the search a bit.
Jean
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Tangowhiskyxray
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Re: First aircraft wanted

Unread post by Tangowhiskyxray » Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:17 pm

Hi,

Non type certified and 4 seats will be nice..
But as I said my knowledge is not very broad so any advise will help.

Even my Brits are getting low..

TWX
Jean Crous
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Re: First aircraft wanted

Unread post by Jean Crous » Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:24 pm

As jy n bietjie tyd spandeer hier , en die "aircraft for sale" deur gaan dan sal jy heel waarskynlik iets vind.
Hier is n mooi Jabiru J450 te koop, en ook n Tripacer, en n Pacer.
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Re: First aircraft wanted

Unread post by Mrb13676 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:23 am

NTCA with 4 seats you're really looking at an RV-10 or a Sling 4. Not sure what other options there are for a genuine 4 seater?

Edit: Glasair Sportsman although that is quite a lot of airplane for a low time pilot?

Edit again - none of these in your budget. I don't think you get 4 seats for that kind of money in an NTCA.. if you can live with 2 - then there are alot of options.
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Re: First aircraft wanted

Unread post by Fransw » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:30 am

Mrb13676 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:23 am
NTCA with 4 seats you're really looking at an RV-10 or a Sling 4. Not sure what other options there are for a genuine 4 seater?

Edit: Glasair Sportsman although that is quite a lot of airplane for a low time pilot?
Not with his budget..

Agree with Jean, pacer/TripacerTripacer/Colt.. One or two good example up for sale now.

Tango, ask the mods to put this thread on the front page/"general"
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Re: First aircraft wanted

Unread post by Whirly » Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:00 pm

You should be able to find a Cherokee 140 or even an older C172 in that price range.

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Re: First aircraft wanted

Unread post by Willie » Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:52 pm

Ek het 3 NTCA 4 sitplek vliegtuie te koop in jou prysklas.
Partanavia B64
Jabiru J400
Beachcraft Muskiteer
Google die modelle en kyk of jy van een of meer hou dan stuur ek meer inligting.
ZS-UJC Hatz Bi-plane
ZS-UGS Evans VP 2
ZS-UNC & ZS- UUJ KR2
Beachcraft Musketeer ZU-VMM
ZU-EJD Thorp T-18
Jabiru J400 ZU-VHB
Zenith 601 XL ZU-DVN
Partenavia ZU-FZS
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Willie
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Re: First aircraft wanted

Unread post by Willie » Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:57 pm

Die mal pryse wat ek vir MPI's moes betaal het gemaak dat nooit weer ń gesertifiseerde vliegtuig sal koop nie.
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Re: First aircraft wanted

Unread post by Whirly » Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:03 pm

Willie wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:52 pm
Ek het 3 NTCA 4 sitplek vliegtuie te koop in jou prysklas.
Partanavia B64
Jabiru J400
Beachcraft Muskiteer
Google die modelle en kyk of jy van een of meer hou dan stuur ek meer inligting.
There you go, have a look at the Partanavia.

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Re: First aircraft wanted

Unread post by Vogoff » Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:22 pm

Tangowhiskyxray wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:05 pm
What will you guys recommend for a first aircraft?

I am working on a tight budget 350- 450k so I would want to try and avoid costly mistakes.
First rule: aircraft will be costly. It won't be long before you start thinking in AMUs (Aviation Monetary Units). Paying R10,000 for a tyre will soon seem normal. Okay, so my main tyres only cost R3,000 each - but I was expecting to pay R10k...

Second rule: keep 20% of the purchase price as a reserve in case of unexpected issues. Do your homework, pay a professional for their opinion, and you shouldn't make a costly mistake. But unless your psychic really can tell the future, there is always a small chance of unforeseen issues.

As for choice of aircraft: there are many good options, but you must be prepared to compromise. Normal advice is to decide on a mission, but in my case I wanted a 160 knot six seat retractable that could land on short fields at 30 knots. That I could afford. No such aircraft exists.

Generally an NTCA will have a higher up-front cost but ongoing maintenance will be cheaper than a TCA. Four seats are nice but you will rarely use them - my two back seats act as a storage shelf for bags and snacks. You can always rent a school aircraft if extra seats are required - just remember to budget for re-familiarization when you do rent.

Don't underestimate the cost of fuel. Flying at 135 knot is nice, but if your goal is to build hours then remember you pay for fuel by the hour, not the kilometer. I believe the Partanavia and Musketeer both have 180hp engines, so expect to burn up to 40l/hour - or R800/hour at current AvGas prices.

Personally I am very happy with my Mooney, although it is slightly out of your budget. However my goal was to get experience on complex/retractable, and with the manual gear the Mooney is as cost effective as one can get for that class of aircraft. I'm not so happy about the type-certified aspect as it appears to add a lot more cost for limited benefit. On the other hand NTCAs aren't free either.

Otherwise the Jabirus have a loyal following, and there are a couple of cubs and a Pacer or two that are available. They should all fit your budget and will probably do all that you need - even if they don't do all that you want.
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Re: First aircraft wanted

Unread post by Mrb13676 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:38 pm

You should also have a look in the for sale section for the Pegasus syndicate - they’re selling a share... looks like a fun airplane.
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Re: First aircraft wanted

Unread post by clearskyaviation » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:17 pm

Hi TWX!

I have a beautiful aerie available for you, struggling to send PMs so I can't share specs or pics.
If interested, please forward your email address to me and I'll be happy to send it to you! Have a great evening!

Thanks,
Ledain
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Re: First aircraft wanted

Unread post by CDW1 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:34 am

Jean Crous wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:10 pm
Tangowhiskyxray wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:05 pm
Hi guys,

I am busy doing my PPL A.
What will you guys recommend for a first aircraft?
I do not know aircraft that well so I am jumping to every little bit of knowledge I can get. Here is a lot of very experienced guys on the forum, please give some advise or tips!
I am working on a tight budget 350- 450k so I would want to try and avoid costly mistakes.
I also like the idea of a stert sleper :D

Any help in this regard will be highly appreciated. And if you have an aerie that is gathering dust please send a pm.

Thanks
TWX
If you can tell us if it must be either Type Certified, or Non Type Certified,2 seats or 4 seats, then it can narrow down the search a bit.
Jean
It is worth looking at a Jabiru 400/430. Low capital input but real saving comes when you operate it at 18l/hr @ 110kt and that with Mogas! Maintenace very affordable. 50hr sevice should cost no more than R3200. Spares available over the counter in George. I cant see any reason as not to give it a go. Buy one with a EFIS. Engine temperature management is critical to the endurance of the engine as with any other engine
Jabiru 430 ZU ECR
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Re: First aircraft wanted

Unread post by Firedog » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:28 am

[/quote]

It is worth looking at a Jabiru 400/430. Low capital input but real saving comes when you operate it at 18l/hr @ 110kt and that with Mogas! Maintenace very affordable. 50hr sevice should cost no more than R3200. Spares available over the counter in George. I cant see any reason as not to give it a go. Buy one with a EFIS. Engine temperature management is critical to the endurance of the engine as with any other engine
[/quote]

I could not agree more - beware of negative comments on the Jabirus - it normally comes from people who has not even owned one. The easy part is purchasing an aircraft but the challenge is to afford the running costs. Looking at your budget a Jabi J430/J400/J450 are 4 seaters (3 adults or 2 adults 2 kids) will be in your price range. Just buy a model that is certified up to 760kg MAUW - (from 2009 onward) if you plan to carry pax and baggage. Performance wise they are right up there with Cessna C172's (even outperforming them) but much cheaper to run. Stay away from type certified if you do not have a big monthly budget...... 8)
Barney

ZU-FDG Jabiru J430

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