First aircraft wanted

Looking at buying or selling your personal aircraft?

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Tangowhiskyxray
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Re: First aircraft wanted

Unread post by Tangowhiskyxray » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:22 pm

Hi,

Thanks for al the info.
I have been thinking for what I will be using it for..
I am staying on a farm so a push out and go fly will certainly be a plus.
Thinking rather 2 seats than 4.(Dont think I will go on holiday with it)
So it is for fun flying
Definately NTCA

What do you guys think of a Bushbaby/ Kitfox idea?

TWX
jprous
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Re: First aircraft wanted

Unread post by jprous » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:00 pm

How about a Socata Tobago TB-10?

180hp Lycoming, 122kts, 10gal/h, fixed gear, 5 seats, 290kg usefull load with full tanks, 5.5 hrs endurance.

Code: Select all

https://avcom.co.za/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=219373
... don't listen to Whirly's comments, a C177 only has 4 seats ;)

JP
Stefan266
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Re: First aircraft wanted

Unread post by Stefan266 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:23 pm

Vogoff wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:22 pm
Tangowhiskyxray wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:05 pm
What will you guys recommend for a first aircraft?

I am working on a tight budget 350- 450k so I would want to try and avoid costly mistakes.
First rule: aircraft will be costly. It won't be long before you start thinking in AMUs (Aviation Monetary Units). Paying R10,000 for a tyre will soon seem normal. Okay, so my main tyres only cost R3,000 each - but I was expecting to pay R10k...

Second rule: keep 20% of the purchase price as a reserve in case of unexpected issues. Do your homework, pay a professional for their opinion, and you shouldn't make a costly mistake. But unless your psychic really can tell the future, there is always a small chance of unforeseen issues.

As for choice of aircraft: there are many good options, but you must be prepared to compromise. Normal advice is to decide on a mission, but in my case I wanted a 160 knot six seat retractable that could land on short fields at 30 knots. That I could afford. No such aircraft exists.

Generally an NTCA will have a higher up-front cost but ongoing maintenance will be cheaper than a TCA. Four seats are nice but you will rarely use them - my two back seats act as a storage shelf for bags and snacks. You can always rent a school aircraft if extra seats are required - just remember to budget for re-familiarization when you do rent.

Don't underestimate the cost of fuel. Flying at 135 knot is nice, but if your goal is to build hours then remember you pay for fuel by the hour, not the kilometer. I believe the Partanavia and Musketeer both have 180hp engines, so expect to burn up to 40l/hour - or R800/hour at current AvGas prices.

Personally I am very happy with my Mooney, although it is slightly out of your budget. However my goal was to get experience on complex/retractable, and with the manual gear the Mooney is as cost effective as one can get for that class of aircraft. I'm not so happy about the type-certified aspect as it appears to add a lot more cost for limited benefit. On the other hand NTCAs aren't free either.

Otherwise the Jabirus have a loyal following, and there are a couple of cubs and a Pacer or two that are available. They should all fit your budget and will probably do all that you need - even if they don't do all that you want.
I am almost in the same situation, currently busy with my ppl a. My nearest flight school is 250km away, so rent is not an option.

I looked and read about the jabiru’s good value for money and reasonable maintenance cost. I even looked at a guys spreadsheet and the average mpi cost is very affordable.

Then also spoke with people on the mooney’s. I am very attracted to them, just scared about the maintenance cost. What is the average mpi cost on them?

I want to fly once a month to Pretoria thats 323 nautical miles.
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Vogoff
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Re: First aircraft wanted

Unread post by Vogoff » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:59 am

Stefan266 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:23 pm
Then also spoke with people on the mooney’s. I am very attracted to them, just scared about the maintenance cost. What is the average mpi cost on them?
Average MPI is not much of an average since it depends on what work needs to be done. My last Mooney MPI was in the region of R25k, there were a couple of small snags but no recurring items so I would call it cheap. Previous MPI was closer to R45k because it included balancing the prop, a fuel tank reseal and hoses.

I doubt the Mooney costs more to service than any other 4 cylinder certified aircraft - on average. But it is almost certainly more than uncertified.
Matthew French
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Re: First aircraft wanted

Unread post by Flooi » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:56 pm

CDW1 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:34 am
Jean Crous wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:10 pm
Tangowhiskyxray wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:05 pm
Hi guys,

I am busy doing my PPL A.
What will you guys recommend for a first aircraft?
I do not know aircraft that well so I am jumping to every little bit of knowledge I can get. Here is a lot of very experienced guys on the forum, please give some advise or tips!
I am working on a tight budget 350- 450k so I would want to try and avoid costly mistakes.
I also like the idea of a stert sleper :D

Any help in this regard will be highly appreciated. And if you have an aerie that is gathering dust please send a pm.

Thanks
TWX
If you can tell us if it must be either Type Certified, or Non Type Certified,2 seats or 4 seats, then it can narrow down the search a bit.
Jean
It is worth looking at a Jabiru 400/430. Low capital input but real saving comes when you operate it at 18l/hr @ 110kt and that with Mogas! Maintenace very affordable. 50hr sevice should cost no more than R3200. Spares available over the counter in George. I cant see any reason as not to give it a go. Buy one with a EFIS. Engine temperature management is critical to the endurance of the engine as with any other engine
Good advice!
Hennie van Zyl
ZU-IEU Jabiru J170 D
DawidR
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Re: First aircraft wanted

Unread post by DawidR » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:20 pm

Tangowhiskyxray wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:22 pm
Hi,

Thanks for al the info.
I have been thinking for what I will be using it for..
I am staying on a farm so a push out and go fly will certainly be a plus.
Thinking rather 2 seats than 4.(Dont think I will go on holiday with it)
So it is for fun flying
Definately NTCA

In that case look at the Jabi SP I advertised on this forum. The cheapest and most capable aerie in its class. I live on a farm myself with a dirt strip. Push out and fly. But capable of long-distance flying at a easy 90kn and 12to 15 lph. Once you meet the Jabi clan you will have a second family!
Regards
Dawid
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Re: First aircraft wanted

Unread post by gerritv » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:32 pm

Hi,
Ek het ook my ppl laas jaar klaar gemaak en oor die selfde gewonder. Ek het die skool se Piper 140's gehuur vir n ruk. Ek het toe n Mooney M20C gekoop vir R437k met 900uur om te gaan op die engin.
Ek love my Mooney, sy is vinnig en lig op sous. Die convertion is so 10ure agv die "complex" klasifikasie met die retracts en constant speed prop. Maar kyk nie terug nie dit is n baie lekker vliegtuig.
Voorspoed.
Marc G
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Re: First aircraft wanted

Unread post by Marc G » Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:22 am

Hi TWX,

My father and I owned a Piper Tripacer for many years. It's a far more capable aircraft than a C172, and if you find the right AMO, the maintenance isn't too expensive. You can get a very nice example for R350-400k.

Easy to fly, strong, 100kt aeroplane, that can carry a good load. It also has lots of character!

Cheers,

Marc
PJB
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Re: First aircraft wanted

Unread post by PJB » Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:04 am

There is a nice J230 for sale in Bloem.
2011 model
300 hours
ZU-FIG J230
hencohco@icloud.com
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Re: First aircraft wanted

Unread post by hencohco@icloud.com » Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:28 pm

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Callie Calitz
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Re: First aircraft wanted

Unread post by Callie Calitz » Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:54 pm

:D Ek verkoop nie Savannah S vliegtuie nie, het self een en dis alles wat jy soek. Hoe vlerke, lae staakspoed, "cruise" teen 100 mpu, kry goeie ondersteuning en is regtig goeie waarde vir geld! :wink:
Savannah S
lawotschkin
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Re: First aircraft wanted

Unread post by lawotschkin » Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:07 am

.. don’t be too scared of type certified - after my ppl I bought an old O300 172 in Germany for 20k€, later I put 9k€ into some refurbishment and after a total of 13years / >600h later I sold her for 27.5k€ .. thats 600h for 1500€ .. traveled all over Europe and Southern Aftica with it without any issues - reliable like a swiss watch and just fun to operate (average annual R12k-15k, burned 27l/h) .. but I must admit that 4 cylinder engines are against my religion and meanwhile I ended up as a true ‘Cessna lover’ - would never even look at owning anything else anymore ..
dale
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Re: First aircraft wanted

Unread post by dale » Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:50 am

Finish your PPL
Then fly 10 or 15 different aircraft.
Then make a list of requirements of what you want to do with the aircraft.
Then we talk again
excolonial
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Re: First aircraft wanted

Unread post by excolonial » Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:28 pm

I have flown bushbaby, Bushcat(cheetah), and many other of the pod and boom style machines. I own a savannah, and will probably get an RV/Share at some point.

Savannah is simply an excellent all metal machine that requires little maintenance, and the handling is so benign as to make it almost dangerous... RV if you wanna go fast.
The older I get, the more I am convinced that "A Confederacy of Dunces" is non fiction.

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