Hawks for Silver Falcons?

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Deanw
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Re: Hawks for Silver Falcons?

Unread post by Deanw » Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:58 pm

OK, found some figures for specific fuel consumption:

Type: | PC-7 Mk II | Hawk Mk 120
Engine: | P&W Canada PT6A-25C | RR Adour 951
SFC: | 0.67 lb/hp/hr | 0.78 lb/hr/lbf

The Hawk, as a complex aircraft with advanced avionics and weapon systems, will also be more expensive to maintain.
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wingnutzster
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Re: Hawks for Silver Falcons?

Unread post by wingnutzster » Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:39 pm

I would imagine (but could be wrong) that the tmk1 of the red Arrows is better suited to this type of flying than the SAAF mark
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Re: Hawks for Silver Falcons?

Unread post by skydancer » Sat Jul 09, 2016 6:13 am

No fuel wise I can imagine might be more then the turboprop. But I was aiming more to the operating costs rather than fuel usage?
Thanks for the facts though,still yet interesting to see indeed.
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Re: Hawks for Silver Falcons?

Unread post by canard » Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:51 am

I rather doubt that this will happen. Especially since the 4-ship that flew at AAD experienced some performance shortcomings in terms of vertical formation aerobatics. Heavier aircraft, not quite enough power. Not sure what the source is but I doubt it
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Deanw
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Re: Hawks for Silver Falcons?

Unread post by Deanw » Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:10 am

I don't think 85 even have enough experienced pilots to undertake the formo work.
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Re: Hawks for Silver Falcons?

Unread post by Mars » Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:13 am

The PC-7Mk II has proved to be a great airshow performer from a crowd persepctive. Sure Jets may make more noise, but the PC-7MKII allows for more action packed and tighter displays.

Another important performance aspect about the PC-7MKII is that it can be operated from small airfields, allowing the Silver Falcons to operate and perform all over the country. If they went back to jets, they would have to operate from main Air Bases and Airports and fly to the display area's.
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FastMover
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Re: Hawks for Silver Falcons?

Unread post by FastMover » Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:58 pm

Just to clarify, here are some reasons why it is not an easy or feasible transition:

1. Operating costs - The Hawk mk120 costs upward of 10x more than the PC-7 MK2 to operate per hour (total cost). Just to give you some perspective regarding fuel burn, if both were on the ground,the ADOUR mK951 burns more fuel taxiing at idle than a legacy PT-6 at full power.

2. Hawk Mk120 is a very different machine from the Hawk T1. They only share approximately 10% commonality which is predominantly the the external shell.

The 100 series hawks are significantly heavier aircraft. Due to the avionics in the nose, the nose authority is heavily reduced especially at low speeds and coupled to a supercritical wing, makes this a tricky aircraft to fly, manipulate and fight with, efficiently. (This is why you never saw vertical manoeuvring in the formation display, as there is simply not enough airspeed over the top to maintain decent controllability in close proximity to another hawk under the same aerodynamic conditions.

3. Coupled to the above, the performance of the aircraft simply does not allow for a tight, compressed show as is possible with T1's. A wide show causes noticeable dead time between manoeuvres, which is why the singleton has a lot of work to do to keep the crowds focused.

What also doesn't help, is the elevation at which the shows are performed, specifically AAD and Swarkops which are the main shows generally earmarked for military jet participation.

Don't get me wrong, It would be great to have a jet formation aerobatic team again and it is definitely possible, however the costs and limitations must be noted and accepted by all.
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Re: Hawks for Silver Falcons?

Unread post by Mars » Wed Aug 17, 2016 11:47 am

As we approach AAD, does anyone know if 85 CFS will be doing a similiar four ship display like AAD 2014?
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Deanw
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Re: Hawks for Silver Falcons?

Unread post by Deanw » Thu Aug 18, 2016 9:07 am

Last I heard, no. Only three Hawks may be present at AAD: Display, backup and static.

But then, the last Hawk formo instruction was very last minute. At that time, they had many more experienced Hawk pilots at the squadron than they do now.
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Deanw
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Re: Hawks for Silver Falcons?

Unread post by Deanw » Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:20 am

With AAD over, there was an extra (fourth) Hawk in attendance, but no new colour scheme.
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