SAA in Business rescue (now flying again)

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evanb
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Re: SAA in Business rescue (now flying again)

Unread post by evanb » Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:23 am

GL wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:27 am
A tad grumpy there Evan? :lol: :twisted: (remember 'twas I who explained the difference between Ch 11 and BR! :roll: )
Frustrated, not grumpy =P~ OK, a little =P~ But yes, they are different, but neither are run in the public interest. They are simply to improve outcomes for creditors compared to liquidation. The US has a slant to shareholder interest over creditors.
GL wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:27 am
I don't know who Mango's creditors are and how much each is owed (although yes - it may be public knowledge). It is somewhat surprising that SAA should be a major creditor - as Mango kept arguing that it was not subsidized by SAA. viz - the a/c leases were AFAIK no longer through SAA. So what was Mango getting from SAA? - office space? perhaps fuel?
Technically, it's SAAT, but that de facto means SAA. SAAT comprises 30% of the concurrent creditors, so has huge control. They are the single biggest concurrent creditor. This was for maintenance. The aircraft were definitely not subsidized since the aircraft lessors are clearly indicated in the list of concurrent creditors, and owed a sizable sum.

SAA were owed some money themselves in the initial listing but this was removed from the liquidation estimate. It was likely treated as a subordinated claim. Looking through the published list, nothing stands out and, if anything, it looks simply like trade terms, i.e. that the outstanding liabilities were general trade credit and nothing to suggest that Mango was anything other than a decent performer pre COVID. No bank loans. The outstanding leases seem to have been up to date prior to COVID.
GL wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:27 am
2) There is a strong motive for DPE to kill off Mango in favour of Lift. Hence a natural conclusion to jump to to assume Mango is to be sacrificed (by SAA if its such a major creditor?) for Takatso.
Indeed. I would agree with this. It's a great way for Takatso and SAA to cancel out a lot of the operational debt that accrued during the COVID shutdowns. SAA will have to write off nearly a billion from Mango, but it'll be a net gain of about R1.7 billion. I always felt Comair was doing the same, however, their strategy was predicated on refinancing the fleet which didn't work out as well.
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Re: SAA in Business rescue (now flying again)

Unread post by Caravan Driver » Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:30 am

Volo wrote:
Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:03 pm
Caravan Driver wrote:
Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:34 pm
Volo wrote:
Mon Nov 15, 2021 12:52 pm
...
......................
SAA either has an agreement with their creditors or not . They cant have it both ways . If they are unable to fulfill any agreement with their creditor's then the creditors have a right to proceed to liquidation .
Its not over until the Fatlady ( used to be - now its the fatguy in charge ) sings .
They are not getting anywhere with between 3 and 5% of the domestic market -so lets see how long they can keep making no money .
Do you think they are making money?
......
If you reread my comment I said " no money"
Aaaah sorry né
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Re: SAA in Business rescue (now flying again)

Unread post by Volo » Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:59 pm

Caravan Driver wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:30 am
Volo wrote:
Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:03 pm
Caravan Driver wrote:
Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:34 pm


Do you think they are making money?
......
If you reread my comment I said " no money"
Aaaah sorry né
....................
My grammer was a little on the poor side - I should have said " I wonder how long they can carry on losing money" !!
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Re: SAA in Business rescue (now flying again)

Unread post by dollar » Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:20 pm

From Fin24 Friday 19 November 2021

“Due to a lack of demand, state-owned flag carrier SAA announced on Friday that it is halting its daily return flight between O.R. Tambo International in Johannesburg and the Mozambican capital Maputo from 1 December 2021.”

Surprised? 😜
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Re: SAA in Business rescue (now flying again)

Unread post by JoeMat » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:30 am

grammer :D :D :D
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Re: SAA in Business rescue (now flying again)

Unread post by Volo » Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:15 am

JoeMat wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:30 am
grammer :D :D :D
....

Touche' - Grammar and my Gramma is a bit poorly too 😆
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Re: SAA in Business rescue (now flying again)

Unread post by African Flyer » Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:16 am

Circling for an hour
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Re: SAA in Business rescue (now flying again)

Unread post by Ray W » Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:34 am

African Flyer wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:16 am
Circling for an hour
Could this be weather related ?
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Re: SAA in Business rescue (now flying again)

Unread post by Captain Gyro » Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:53 am

Probably the usual African phenomenon; airport suddenly closed due to VIP movement. Have had that going into Kinshasa.
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Re: SAA in Business rescue (now flying again)

Unread post by Caravan Driver » Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:08 am

African Flyer wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:16 am
Circling for an hour
Probably holding for weather considering the variable holding patterns.
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Re: SAA in Business rescue (now flying again)

Unread post by African Flyer » Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:14 pm

New route correct ?
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Re: SAA in Business rescue (now flying again)

Unread post by African Flyer » Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:21 pm

Thanks Ray, Gyro, Caravan 💯
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Re: SAA in Business rescue (now flying again)

Unread post by Stef98 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:34 pm

Ray W wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:34 am
African Flyer wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:16 am
Circling for an hour
Could this be weather related ?
Yes. It was weather related. I was on the flight. Very calm pilot keeping us all informed as to what the situation was after he had to pull out of the landing. Took time for the storm to move away from the airfield.
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Re: SAA in Business rescue (now flying again)

Unread post by Airplaneguy9 » Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:44 pm

African Flyer wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:14 pm
New route correct ?
Correct
Amazing to see the world collapsing right before my eyes! :o
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Re: SAA in Business rescue (now flying again)

Unread post by African Flyer » Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:39 pm

Airplaneguy9 wrote:
Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:44 pm
African Flyer wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:14 pm
New route correct ?
Correct
Wonder what they're payloads are
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