SAA to start job cuts?

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Jfairwell
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Re: SAA to start job cuts?

Unread post by Jfairwell » Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:52 pm

Trent772B wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:40 pm
Jfairwell wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:29 am
SAA and SAX have no prospects of commercial success. It should simply be closed in an orderly fashion, say 6 to 12 months, and allow the private sector to step in. The international and regional markets won't blink and domestically the more agile airlines like Safair and Airlink will have enough time to increase capacity where necessary.

The useful / skilled employees will find alternative employment.

It's actually quite simple.
That will cost R40 Billion overnight
And still be cheaper than carrying on with this nonsense.
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Re: SAA to start job cuts?

Unread post by Areaman » Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:36 pm

Jfairwell wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:52 pm
Trent772B wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:40 pm
Jfairwell wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:29 am
SAA and SAX have no prospects of commercial success. It should simply be closed in an orderly fashion, say 6 to 12 months, and allow the private sector to step in. The international and regional markets won't blink and domestically the more agile airlines like Safair and Airlink will have enough time to increase capacity where necessary.

The useful / skilled employees will find alternative employment.

It's actually quite simple.
That will cost R40 Billion overnight
And still be cheaper than carrying on with this nonsense.
Yet again....common sense is very common, salute Jfairwell👏👏👏👏
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Re: SAA to start job cuts?

Unread post by Janniel » Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:46 pm

Areaman wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:36 pm
Jfairwell wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:52 pm
Trent772B wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:40 pm


That will cost R40 Billion overnight
And still be cheaper than carrying on with this nonsense.
Yet again....common sense is very common, salute Jfairwell👏👏👏👏
This is not a matter of common sense. If you just close SAA it will have a huge negative impact on the SA economy. This will put the economy in a worse situation than which it currently is. The reason is that when SAA closes someone will need to pay the debts of SAA and with SAA being an SOE that debt will fall on the government which in return will have a negative impact on the other SOE's.
So it is not a simple fix to say just close SAA
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Re: SAA to start job cuts?

Unread post by danie.e » Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:03 pm

So it is better to keep it going on making more losses while the debt burden grows ?
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Re: SAA to start job cuts?

Unread post by Mach Decimal 83 » Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:05 pm

Janniel wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:46 pm
Areaman wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:36 pm
Jfairwell wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:52 pm


And still be cheaper than carrying on with this nonsense.
Yet again....common sense is very common, salute Jfairwell👏👏👏👏
This is not a matter of common sense. If you just close SAA it will have a huge negative impact on the SA economy. This will put the economy in a worse situation than which it currently is. The reason is that when SAA closes someone will need to pay the debts of SAA and with SAA being an SOE that debt will fall on the government which in return will have a negative impact on the other SOE's.
So it is not a simple fix to say just close SAA
Even with that reasoning, you won't postpone the inevitable. There are much bigger fish to fry (Eskom, Petro SA, etc). SAA is a droplet in the bucket. The money has dried up. It's as simple as that.
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Re: SAA to start job cuts?

Unread post by excolonial » Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:08 pm

If the cash has dried up, I expect there will be some bond "issuances" in the near future. Problem with a privatisation solution, any prospective buyer faces the same challenges as those who would like to restructure SAA. The debt burden would not be attractive. The workforce size and shape unlikely to malleable due to "politics".

I expect all these private "rescuers" would make a typical low ball offer, then start picking the carcass clean.

What to do? Without real political will - nothing will change regardless of who is at the helm.
The older I get, the more I am convinced that "A Confederacy of Dunces" is non fiction.
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Re: SAA to start job cuts?

Unread post by Richard007 » Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:23 pm

SAA is not the pillar in the economy that they would like you to believe it is. Its market share has shrunk even though the service is heavily subsidized by the taxpayer and its actually not particularly relevant.

Most practical solution is return all aircraft at the end of each lease until its about a third of its current size and then shoot it in the head. Publicize the downsizing so that other carriers can plan capacity.

Of course as we know they have recently entered into a whole bunch of new ones. Perhaps 'growing into profitability' is still being heard in the hallways.
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Re: SAA to start job cuts?

Unread post by Mach Decimal 83 » Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:37 pm

Richard007 wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:23 pm
SAA is not the pillar in the economy that they would like you to believe it is. Its market share has shrunk even though the service is heavily subsidized by the taxpayer and its actually not particularly relevant.

Most practical solution is return all aircraft at the end of each lease until its about a third of its current size and then shoot it in the head. Publicize the downsizing so that other carriers can plan capacity.

Of course as we know they have recently entered into a whole bunch of new ones. Perhaps 'growing into profitability' is still being heard in the hallways.
👆👆👆

What he said.
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Re: SAA to start job cuts?

Unread post by evanb » Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:05 pm

Richard007 wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:23 pm
SAA is not the pillar in the economy that they would like you to believe it is. Its market share has shrunk even though the service is heavily subsidized by the taxpayer and its actually not particularly relevant.

Most practical solution is return all aircraft at the end of each lease until its about a third of its current size and then shoot it in the head. Publicize the downsizing so that other carriers can plan capacity.

Of course as we know they have recently entered into a whole bunch of new ones. Perhaps 'growing into profitability' is still being heard in the hallways.
There certainly isn't a strategy of growing into profitability at SAA. In fact, they've dramatically downsized in the last few years, and reduced capacity while signalling the market.

In terms of shorthaul they returned 2x A320, 4x A319 and 7x B738 to lessors with no replacements. They've reduced longhaul flying by 30%. The effect has been negligible on the bottom line due to stubbornly high fixed costs.
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Re: SAA to start job cuts?

Unread post by Trent772B » Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:17 pm

evanb wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:05 pm
Richard007 wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:23 pm
SAA is not the pillar in the economy that they would like you to believe it is. Its market share has shrunk even though the service is heavily subsidized by the taxpayer and its actually not particularly relevant.

Most practical solution is return all aircraft at the end of each lease until its about a third of its current size and then shoot it in the head. Publicize the downsizing so that other carriers can plan capacity.

Of course as we know they have recently entered into a whole bunch of new ones. Perhaps 'growing into profitability' is still being heard in the hallways.
There certainly isn't a strategy of growing into profitability at SAA. In fact, they've dramatically downsized in the last few years, and reduced capacity while signalling the market.

In terms of shorthaul they returned 2x A320, 4x A319 and 7x B738 to lessors with no replacements. They've reduced longhaul flying by 30%. The effect has been negligible on the bottom line due to stubbornly high fixed costs.
And complete inability of Cadre management to devise a plan to grow revenue.
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Re: SAA to start job cuts?

Unread post by evanb » Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:33 pm

Trent772B wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:17 pm
And complete inability of Cadre management to devise a plan to grow revenue.
Possibly, and also not. There are and have been some seriously talented people in management at SAA over the years. Don't discount the effect that outright looting and corruption has had and what that has also done to undermine many competent people at SAA.
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Re: SAA to start job cuts?

Unread post by Jfairwell » Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:58 pm

On a slightly different note, these unions at least have the courage of their conviction, unlike SAAPA who issues a threat every now and again with no action.
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Re: SAA to start job cuts?

Unread post by evanb » Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:46 pm

Jfairwell wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:58 pm
On a slightly different note, these unions at least have the courage of their conviction, unlike SAAPA who issues a threat every now and again with no action.
SAAPA are negotiating from a position of power, the other unions are not.
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Re: SAA to start job cuts?

Unread post by Piperdriver » Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:47 pm

evanb wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:46 pm
[quote=Jfairwell post_id=2080007 time=<a href="tel:1573671533">1573671533</a> user_id=56749]
On a slightly different note, these unions at least have the courage of their conviction, unlike SAAPA who issues a threat every now and again with no action.
SAAPA are negotiating from a position of power, the other unions are not.
[/quote]

As usual your appraisal of the situation is insightful. This strike could have wider implications for the likes of Comair and Mango who both use SAAT to a greater or lesser extent
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Re: SAA to start job cuts?

Unread post by HAAN » Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:13 am

Media Statement
 
SAA CANCELS FLIGHTS TO MINIMISE DISRUPTION FOR CUSTOMERS
 
JOHANNESBURG. 13 November 2019. South African Airways (SAA) has cancelled nearly all its domestic, regional and international flights scheduled for Friday, 15 November and Saturday, 16 November 2019. The airline’s key objective is to minimise the impact of disruptions for its customers.
 
The cancellations follow an announcement by the South African Cabin Crew Association (SACCA) and the National Union of Metalworkers of South Africa (NUMSA) that their members will embark on industrial action from Friday morning. This is notwithstanding SAA’s repeated overtures to the unions to acknowledge the severity of the current situation facing the airline.
 
“We are putting our customers first and regret the inevitable inconvenience that these cancellations may cause our customers. However, by acting proactively SAA can certainly help customers find alternatives,” said Tlali Tlali, SAA Spokesperson.
 
“Unless alternative arrangements are in place, customers are requested not to go to their departure airports during the disruption as SAA will be unable to provide any assistance. Information on the status of our flights will be regularly updated on our website,” said Tlali.
 
Only flights operated by South African Airways will be affected. All flights operated on partner airlines, including SA Express, Mango, SA Airlink and all codeshare partners, including flights operated by our Star Alliance partner airlines. These flights can be identified by their flight numbers and will operate as normal: SA 1000 – 1999, SA 2000 – 2999, SA 7000 – 7999 and SA 8000 to 8999.
 
SAA will operate flights from selected outstations on Friday 15 November 2019 back to SAA’s base, OR Tambo International Airport.  
 
Regional flights, which will operate on Friday morning, will return from Maputo (SA147), Lusaka (SA067), Harare (SA025), Windhoek (SA073), and Accra (SA210).
 
International flights, which will operate on Friday evening, will return from Frankfurt (SA261), New York (SA204), Munich (SA265), Hong Kong (SA287), Perth (SA281), and London (SA235).
 
The airline will assess the situation on an ongoing basis and Customers will be kept informed of all operational developments on a daily basis.
 
Tlali stated that, during the negotiations with the unions, SAA presented a revised offer for employees delivering a 5.9% increase subject to the availability of funds from lenders. NUMSA and SACCA are demanding an 8% increase.
 
National Transport Movement (NTM) has not stated whether their members will embark on a strike or not.
 
SAA attempted to dissuade the unions from embarking on industrial action by providing firm commitment dates to SAA’s offer of 5.9%.  Discussions are continuing to resolve the wage matter at the time of issuing the statement.   
 
SAA will spare no effort to work jointly with the labour unions to find solutions that accommodate the employee demands, safeguard the business and return operations to normal.
 
-Ends-

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