SAA to start job cuts?

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Re: SAA to start job cuts?

Unread post by Mikee » Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:46 am

Well, Mr. Jim, your bluff has been called.
What now....
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Re: SAA to start job cuts?

Unread post by ERASER » Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:01 am

evanb wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:46 pm
Jfairwell wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:58 pm
On a slightly different note, these unions at least have the courage of their conviction, unlike SAAPA who issues a threat every now and again with no action.
SAAPA are negotiating from a position of power, the other unions are not.
Mr Evan, I think your assumption is wrong..................this says it all........South African Airways (SAA) has cancelled nearly all its domestic, regional and international flights scheduled for Friday, 15 November and Saturday, 16 November 2019.......SAA is very unionized, thus all the unions are talking from a position of power within SAA/SAAT.
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Re: SAA to start job cuts?

Unread post by IKTAV » Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:09 am

evanb wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:46 pm
Jfairwell wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:58 pm
On a slightly different note, these unions at least have the courage of their conviction, unlike SAAPA who issues a threat every now and again with no action.
Another armchair expert. :roll:

SAAPA are negotiating from a position of power, the other unions are not.
Exactly evan. Why shoot off all your amo when it’s not necessary...

The government should have caught a wake-up when Jarana walked out. Amazing that they didn’t!
But they’d better be awake now! If this isn’t handled properly, the first domino might fall...
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Re: SAA to start job cuts?

Unread post by IKTAV » Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:39 am

Feral Haffajee’s article in fin24 this morning sums it up nicely.

Haffajee: Why should SAA employees pay for the sins of Dudu Myeni and Jacob Zuma?

I’m with Finance Minister Tito Mboweni that South African Airways is a vanity that our near-bankrupt country can’t afford. But if the government has decided that our national self-esteem is somehow tied up with having an airline, then why are workers the only ones going to make the sacrifice to keep it flying?

SAA is on the verge of a nasty strike after its acting CEO Zuks Ramasia announced earlier in the week that it may need to chop up to one in five workers. Unions are up in arms, with both yellow-bib and the cabin crew workers threatening the "mother of all strikes" on Friday.  Its pilots, meanwhile, have also threatened to strike if the government does not resolve the airline's restructuring plan. 

I hardly fly SAA any longer because it’s too expensive, and a lack of investment in online bookings means FlySafair and others are faster and cheaper options. But when you do use the national carrier, you can’t fault the staff. Impeccably polite, I often find SAA check-in staff far better trained and more service-oriented than Comair, which bills itself as customer-focused but often is not.

With better management, SAA is more punctual than it has been in years. The staff want to do well.
Throughout the Marie Antoinette-like era when former president Jacob Zuma put the manager of his personal charity, Dudu Myeni, in charge of the flag carrier, the staff were canaries in the coal mine. They told of how tenders were being diverted and of how Myeni was bringing in her own people to push funds and contracts to her cronies. Her diva-like behaviour on and off planes was a legend. Flowing about in kaftans, she bullied and pushed and tried to get contracts cancelled to give to colleagues.
The former head of treasury at SAA, Cynthia Stimpel, is writing a book about that era and it may answer many questions about how the airline came to be where it is today. 
The price is now being paid. Myeni, who is facing delinquent director proceedings initiated by the Organisation Undoing Tax Abuse,(and SAAPA) and her appointees are alleged to have connived on everything from fleet leasing arrangements, to catering and fuel contracts, and even tried to interfere in apron services.  Bidvest blew the whistle on how Myeni and another board member tried to shake them down and out of their aviation services contracts if they were not cut in. 
It was real banana republic stuff.  And the era explains why SAA is out of money and relying on the public purse.  Corrupt contracts were allegedly struck at rates often far exceeding market with profits used to pay backhanders.

Yet Myeni is holed up somewhere safe. Her job is not on the line. Her income is secure.  Her family is not threatened by the job loss of a breadwinner. Neither is Zuma’s. 
But hundreds of workers could now lose their jobs.  SAA should instead be slicing out the management that allowed the looting to happen, many of whom are appointees from the Myeni era. It should be cutting everybody employed or in charge of procurement.
The reform and restructuring of state-owned companies is not possible without justice. It would be easier for the flag carrier's new managers to make the changes they need to if Myeni were on trial with the companies who won contracts by means both unfair and foul.  It would also be easier if Zuma was not allowed to play fast and loose with the judicial commission of inquiry - where he has refused to appear this week due to illness – instead tweeting about this and that.  
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Re: SAA to start job cuts?

Unread post by Jfairwell » Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:35 am

IKTAV wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:09 am
evanb wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:46 pm
Jfairwell wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:58 pm
On a slightly different note, these unions at least have the courage of their conviction, unlike SAAPA who issues a threat every now and again with no action.
Another armchair expert. :roll:

SAAPA are negotiating from a position of power, the other unions are not.
Exactly evan. Why shoot off all your amo when it’s not necessary...

The government should have caught a wake-up when Jarana walked out. Amazing that they didn’t!
But they’d better be awake now! If this isn’t handled properly, the first domino might fall...
Well, that aged well for an armchair critic...

Unions appear pretty powerful now, don't they. SAA are canceling flights on a 2 day rolling basis now - Friday and Saturday.

As for SAAPA - they may have power, but no spine.
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Re: SAA to start job cuts?

Unread post by Safetyman » Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:57 am

HAAN wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:13 am
Media Statement
 
SAA CANCELS FLIGHTS TO MINIMISE DISRUPTION FOR CUSTOMERS
 
JOHANNESBURG. 13 November 2019. South African Airways (SAA) has cancelled nearly all its domestic, regional and international flights scheduled for Friday, 15 November and Saturday, 16 November 2019. The airline’s key objective is to minimise the impact of disruptions for its customers.
 
The cancellations follow an announcement by the South African Cabin Crew Association (SACCA) and the National Union of Metalworkers of South Africa (NUMSA) that their members will embark on industrial action from Friday morning. This is notwithstanding SAA’s repeated overtures to the unions to acknowledge the severity of the current situation facing the airline.
 

GREAT!! Stuck in Kinshasa - Was supposed to have flown back on SAA tonight...🤬🤬🤬
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Re: SAA to start job cuts?

Unread post by dollar » Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:35 am

I believe that closing SAA is going to expose us to one almighty financial klap! All the cash it owes falls due and the government (use the term loosely) is going to have to fork out big time. It’s waaay easier to keep kicking the can.
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Re: SAA to start job cuts?

Unread post by cape2211 » Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:37 am

Safetyman wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:57 am
HAAN wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:13 am
Media Statement
 
SAA CANCELS FLIGHTS TO MINIMISE DISRUPTION FOR CUSTOMERS
 
JOHANNESBURG. 13 November 2019. South African Airways (SAA) has cancelled nearly all its domestic, regional and international flights scheduled for Friday, 15 November and Saturday, 16 November 2019. The airline’s key objective is to minimise the impact of disruptions for its customers.
 
The cancellations follow an announcement by the South African Cabin Crew Association (SACCA) and the National Union of Metalworkers of South Africa (NUMSA) that their members will embark on industrial action from Friday morning. This is notwithstanding SAA’s repeated overtures to the unions to acknowledge the severity of the current situation facing the airline.
 

GREAT!! Stuck in Kinshasa - Was supposed to have flown back on SAA tonight...🤬🤬🤬
And you still can - strike is on Friday and today is Thursday ;-)
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Re: SAA to start job cuts?

Unread post by cape2211 » Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:50 am

So just how many staff does SAA have? According to the Acting CFO they want to reduce their staff of 5,400 by 944.

Yet the unions mention 11,000 workers.....

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article ... of-strike/

Numsa and the association in Wednesday’s joint statement said they rejected the airline’s argument that the strike’s aim was to collapse the airline so it can be placed under liquidation.

“Whilst it is true that SAA is hugely in debt, we argue that this crisis has deliberately been created by those tasked with leading this institution… Workers have been at the forefront of trying to save SAA and make it viable. Our members have been fighting against corruption; some were even fired for doing this, and yet, the same cannot be said for the executive management and the board,” said the two unions.

“Our goal is to #SaveSAA and to save jobs. It is unacceptable that 11,000 workers must sacrifice their livelihoods for the failures of a corrupt board and incompetent management.”
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Re: SAA to start job cuts?

Unread post by GL » Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:57 am

cape2211 wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:50 am
So just how many staff does SAA have? According to the Acting CFO they want to reduce their staff of 5,400 by 944.

Yet the unions mention 11,000 workers.....

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article ... of-strike/

Numsa and the association in Wednesday’s joint statement said they rejected the airline’s argument that the strike’s aim was to collapse the airline so it can be placed under liquidation.

“Whilst it is true that SAA is hugely in debt, we argue that this crisis has deliberately been created by those tasked with leading this institution… Workers have been at the forefront of trying to save SAA and make it viable. Our members have been fighting against corruption; some were even fired for doing this, and yet, the same cannot be said for the executive management and the board,” said the two unions.

“Our goal is to #SaveSAA and to save jobs. It is unacceptable that 11,000 workers must sacrifice their livelihoods for the failures of a corrupt board and incompetent management.”
Two pages back this question was discussed - that answer is the group has about 9500 staff of which SAA has about 5400.
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Re: SAA to start job cuts?

Unread post by GL » Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:58 am

Viz:
GL wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:08 pm
evanb wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:25 pm
GL wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:14 pm
5146 is a not a usual number of employees for SAA - the more commonly accepted figure is 10,000 but I guess that includes SAAT and Mango and Air chefs, but even so 5146 is low for SAA?
At the end of March 2017:
SAA 5,752
SAAT 2,367
Mango 713
Air Chefs 1,237
SATC 2
Total 10,071

So between now and then they've already reduced the workforce at SAA by over 10%.
Indeed and a significant part of these reductions came from the cut in pilot numbers, of which I believe about 175 have taken contracts or retired. An unanticipated irony is that I believe the non white and non male pilots were a disproportionately large percentage of the pilots taking contracts with other airlines and thus the pilots workforce has become even more pale male.
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Re: SAA to start job cuts?

Unread post by Falafel » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:10 am

Still not sure what this strike is going to achieve... the unions are also full of it... should have been threatening to strike years ago to get some order at SAA, so now there seems to be a more concerted effort to sort things out and they strike now... SAAPA threatened but clearly agree with the above was all alot of hot air, now everyone wakes up and says enough...

Unions were happy with the bloated workforce and corruption going on there because it suited them...

Close this mess down I think.... the rot is endemic and runs too deep to start a clean up...commons business principles went out the window many years ago... recent article that SA would rather keep flying than eating (the funds are better diverted to struggling farmers than SAA)
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Re: SAA to start job cuts?

Unread post by PJL » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:23 am

Falafel wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:10 am
Close this mess down I think.... the rot is endemic and runs too deep to start a clean up...commons business principles went out the window many years ago... recent article that SA would rather keep flying than eating (the funds are better diverted to struggling farmers than SAA)
I agree with closing SAA down or selling it, the bleeding has to be stopped and lets be honest we have to bite this bullet and take the pain that goes with it otherwise we will continue to throw good money after bad. There is NO private company in the world that would survive this mess!! The rule is simple, Income must exceed expenditure, period!!!

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Re: SAA to start job cuts?

Unread post by Mouser » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:35 am

Listening very briefly to SAFM this morning while driving it seems like the strike is a nail in the coffin as it erodes confidence in SAA as a carrier and is an incentive for agents etc to book on other airlines to secure schedules for tourists etc. SAA's still climbing, government guaranteed, debt is beyond the business ability of SAA to service (correct me evanb) so, like Eskom, there is no solution within the business.
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Re: SAA to start job cuts?

Unread post by Tailspin2001 » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:35 am

IKTAV wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:39 am
Feral Haffajee’s article in fin24 this morning sums it up nicely.

Haffajee: Why should SAA employees pay for the sins of Dudu Myeni and Jacob Zuma?

Because I'm guessing it was about 90% of them that voted ANC and as a direct result ended up with Zuma and his band of 40 (thousand) thieves. I keep wondering when will the majority of South Africans wake up and smell the coffee!
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