SAA in Business rescue

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Re: SAA in Business rescue

Unread post by snoopy » Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:27 pm

Both the other 2 written versions were released online. Elsewhere.

But lets see which ex SAA tail numbers ends up in SAAF colours. CAF speeches are meant to be written and released by SAAF DCC, the official source - regardless of what was spoken. :arrow:
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Re: SAA in Business rescue

Unread post by Falafel » Fri Oct 02, 2020 5:51 pm

Darren wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:40 pm
Putting on my mod hat: Moderators Message:
Guys, I cleaned up some off topic posts. Please try to keep this topic on track, and avoid general political comments that aren't directly related.
Mod hat off: Note that this acquisition hasn't been confirmed yet, and there are no details available. That's why it would be interesting to see if the BRPs have reported anything.

I'm not sure how the financials would work unless the SAAF has been able to get these aircraft for next to nothing, in which case operating them for a few years as general passenger and cargo transport aircraft with a low utilisation rate may work out better than relying on charters for those flights as it does now. There may also be no intention to fly them for very long, but to provide a relatively short term boost to SAAF capabilities at a low cost.

From what I've heard of the discussions over the past few months, there's no intention for large modifications of the aircraft, certainly nothing like an ELINT or air tanker conversion. One proposal from Airbus some years ago when this was first mooted was to have a modular VIP interior, either Airbus's own existing modular option or something subcontracted to a company like Aerosud, which would allow an aircraft to be re-roled between general transport and VIP. Or it could be used as-is with the existing business class for the same purpose.

For now though there just isn't enough information. So this is all speculation.
Definitely think that they need Business class configuration.... doesnt make sense to send troops into Africa Cattle class and THEN go and sleep in a tent... better Business Class, and then the tent... especially with the very long legs between JHB and... anywhere else in Africa where they may be needed :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: SAA in Business rescue

Unread post by Darren » Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:39 pm

snoopy wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:27 pm
Both the other 2 written versions were released online. Elsewhere.
Neither Dean nor I have said otherwise.
CAF speeches are meant to be written and released by SAAF DCC, the official source - regardless of what was spoken. :arrow:
An early draft was released by mistake instead of the final version. It's an official release, which is why we're all talking about it as a real thing, but it wasn't what Msimang said when speaking.
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Re: SAA in Business rescue

Unread post by expatAMS » Mon Oct 05, 2020 8:22 am

Ethiopian Airlines will not give money to cover debts from the past, the ET CEO said in an interview last weekend:
https://www.news24.com/fin24/economy/et ... s-20201004
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Re: SAA in Business rescue

Unread post by snoopy » Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:19 am

expatAMS wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 8:22 am
Ethiopian Airlines will not give money to cover debts from the past, the ET CEO said in an interview last weekend:
https://www.news24.com/fin24/economy/et ... s-20201004
If the penny doesnt drop yet...it never will.

Those pro this BR saga are for it - because they stand something to lose. Thats all.

Nobody in their right mind will touch this state SOEs legacy problems...or want to pay for it...except its owner, BECAUSE its applying someone else's money it never worked for. And has been doing so for way too long. :arrow:

Preventing more of the same in V2 - would require an amendment to the state Act that regulates SOEs first. Not allowing the owner to use public funds again - if the SOE fails as a business. And no allowances for 15 "go-arounds" to try saving a dead duck.
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Re: SAA in Business rescue

Unread post by Falafel » Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:24 pm

snoopy wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:19 am
expatAMS wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 8:22 am
Ethiopian Airlines will not give money to cover debts from the past, the ET CEO said in an interview last weekend:
https://www.news24.com/fin24/economy/et ... s-20201004
If the penny doesnt drop yet...it never will.

Those pro this BR saga are for it - because they stand something to lose. Thats all.

Nobody in their right mind will touch this state SOEs legacy problems...or want to pay for it...except its owner, BECAUSE its applying someone else's money it never worked for. And has been doing so for way too long. :arrow:

Preventing more of the same in V2 - would require an amendment to the state Act that regulates SOEs first. Not allowing the owner to use public funds again - if the SOE fails as a business. And no allowances for 15 "go-arounds" to try saving a dead duck.
This whole saga has become more than tedious... cant believe we are even still discussing the possibility of this having a future going forward.

Its time for SAA to become a part of SA's history... there is nothing left and no more deals to be done as a State owned airline... a business model like Swiss / Lufthansa should be considered, failing which... waste of time, money and pixels...
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Re: SAA in Business rescue

Unread post by ZX357 » Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:01 pm

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Re: SAA in Business rescue

Unread post by Ned Yakman » Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:02 pm

Darren wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:39 pm
snoopy wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:27 pm
Both the other 2 written versions were released online. Elsewhere.
Neither Dean nor I have said otherwise.
CAF speeches are meant to be written and released by SAAF DCC, the official source - regardless of what was spoken. :arrow:
An early draft was released by mistake instead of the final version. It's an official release, which is why we're all talking about it as a real thing, but it wasn't what Msimang said when speaking.
Darren - you're quite correct, but the fact that it appeared in a draft remains interesting as the General clearly felt it was something he wanted to say (why else would it have even been in the draft?). Presumably he was stopped or had second thoughts at the last moment. Apparently, when SAA's BRPs launched the tender for the sale of the A340s in January, the DOD expressed an interest in acquiring some of them. A couple of days before the General retired, a DPE official asked the BRPs to finalise the transaction with DOD, but the BRPs pointed out that this would contravene PFMA requirements and the rules governing tenders. The rules require the BRPs assess all of the offers it has received (they have received several) to determine which one is in SAA's best interest. The BRPs agreed to schedule a meeting with officials from DOD and DPE, but it was cancelled after the DOD failed to respond. Ironically, it was scheduled for the same day as Gen Msimangs' retirement parade.
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Re: SAA in Business rescue

Unread post by Darren » Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:28 pm

Very interesting Ned, thank you.
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Re: SAA in Business rescue

Unread post by HarryC » Sat Oct 10, 2020 10:44 am

FR24 is now showing the last 2 A320's leaving ORT SZI (SA4715) and SZJ (SA4716} presumably on their way back to the lessors?
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Re: SAA in Business rescue

Unread post by trees » Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:07 pm

Would hazard a guess they are lease returns on their way to AUH where the other Goshawk A320 (SZE) went.
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Re: SAA in Business rescue

Unread post by HarryC » Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:18 am

trees wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:07 pm
Would hazard a guess they are lease returns on their way to AUH where the other Goshawk A320 (SZE) went.
That is where they went.Abu Dhabi.
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Re: SAA in Business rescue

Unread post by Snitch » Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:11 pm

So they are down to these final aircraft

A340-300
ZS-SXE (Has not flown since March 2020)
ZS-SXF (Has not flown since June 2020)

A340-600
ZS-SNC
ZS-SND
ZS-SNF
ZS-SNG

A330-300
ZS-SXM
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Re: SAA in Business rescue

Unread post by African Flyer » Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:03 pm

Snitch wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:11 pm
So they are down to these final aircraft

A340-300
ZS-SXE (Has not flown since March 2020)
ZS-SXF (Has not flown since June 2020)

A340-600
ZS-SNC
ZS-SND
ZS-SNF
ZS-SNG

A330-300
ZS-SXM
So basically Mango does Domestic and the Airbuses do international. How much is the monthly lease on that A330?
Positive rate! :D
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Re: SAA in Business rescue

Unread post by trees » Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:29 pm

African Flyer wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:03 pm
Snitch wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:11 pm
So they are down to these final aircraft

A340-300
ZS-SXE (Has not flown since March 2020)
ZS-SXF (Has not flown since June 2020)

A340-600
ZS-SNC
ZS-SND
ZS-SNF
ZS-SNG

A330-300
ZS-SXM
So basically Mango does Domestic and the Airbuses do international. How much is the monthly lease on that A330?
More like Mango does domestic and that’s it. SAA has stopped operating as of October. The A330 still needs to be returned as well as 3 A319’s leased from Castlelake.

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