New Engine

The Jabiru Engine which is used in many other aircraft.

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checkride
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New Engine

Unread post by checkride » Wed Dec 30, 2015 8:04 am

Guys just a question. CYR engine was totally rebuild by the factory, its done about 18hr since and has not used a drop of oil. I might be wrong here this is why im asking, surely a new engine being run it should be using oil. Am I concerned about nothing. Everything else is good,the oil temp comes up on take off but settles down nicely.

we have double checked and she has not taken one drop of oil since the overhaul. Dipstick does not lie. :D :D
Also this mineral oil doesn't seem to handle temp very well, is this just the properties of the oil or am I wrong again. Reason i ask is that we are experiencing oil temps between 90-120 C we have never had this issue. Always been around 80C this was on the synthetic oils, Shell 100Plus not the mineral oil.
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Re: New Engine

Unread post by wynand » Wed Jan 06, 2016 6:32 am

Hi Checkride

By now, I'm sure you've had to add a few ml of oil.
Ring-gap alignment affects oil consumption. When the engine is overhauled, the rings-gaps are carefully rotated to the "10 to 2" position. They might migrate and your consumption might increase or, if you're lucky, the consumption will stay low.

The oil temps should settle as the engine breaks in.

Also note that the oil temp is dramatically affected by OAT. Climb at full power when OAT is below 15° and your oil temp might not reach 100°. On a hot day, however, you might have to level off a bit to keep oil temp below 120°.

With my J430 I can fly continuous full power only when OAT is below about 35°. I learnt that in the Botswana air race.
"Rule books are paper. They will not cushion a sudden meeting of stone and metal." -Ernest K. Gann
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Re: New Engine

Unread post by checkride » Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:45 am

Wynand,

Hi nope not a drop of oil, this is why i'm asking. Thought the same that the engine should be using by now. Maybe i'm lucky and the ring orientation hasn't changed at all . Engine is running really well and smooth . Maybe Im just worrying about nothing.
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Re: New Engine

Unread post by checkride » Sun Mar 06, 2016 8:43 am

Ok Just an update and maybe some advise.


Oil change was done at 25 hrs after run in plus the cylinder heads were checked - torque settings. So replaced oil for Shell 100 Plus and of we go or so i thought. I did fill the oil filter with oil before install, bit messy but always done this with my bikes etc


The first flight OAT was 17 C CHT were all in the green but the oil temp kept climbing, didn't matter what he did, only started coming down from about 115 c once he came off the power on decent and landing.

So had a good check around. Oil level was on the mark so didnt over fill the sump. Oil pressure was good 2.1 BAR, Oil cooler looked OK from the outside nothing blocked on the radiator fins, all the holes on the side where the cowl fits are sealed so air can only flow through the cooler. Decided to change the temp censor, this is what we found. This time in the climb full power Temp was 110C OAT was 28 compared to 17 C with Oil temp of 115 the last flight . So look like this was a probe issue but still not happy as the temps still remained higher than normal. This was never an issue with this engine always around 80-85.

Anything else I should be looking at. Im thinking of maybe removing the oil cooler and having it properly checked and cleaned out this way i can rule out and issue with the cooler.
Maybe this is a case of just being a new engine, very frustrating as everything else is spot on EGT, CHT no issues.

Just by the way she has not used a drop of oil either during run in and about 2 hrs of flying on 100plus, nothing in the overflow either

:( :( :( :evil:
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Re: New Engine

Unread post by T4flyer » Sun Mar 06, 2016 12:22 pm

Hi Checkride,

Those are high oil temps. I had 28 degrees OAT yesterday lunch time and my TCOA/cooler kept the oil temperature rock steady at 83 degrees. (J170, 4 cylinder)

Some thoughts, I and a few others have found kinked oil cooler pipes, if the pipe is slightly kinked at the oil filter block disturbing the pipe during the filter change might cause the pipe to kink more restricting the oil flow to the cooler (and to the engine) Although so far I have never had this problem, I have heard guys talk about oil filter issues, if it was me I would install another new filter just to eliminate that possibility

Do you measure oil pressure before the cooler (top mounted sensor) or actual oil gallery pressure (front mounted sensor pointing forward) oil pressure can still look good with very little oil getting to the engine if the cooler is restricting oil flow.

When fitting the TOCA the manufacturer recommends increasing the pipe and fittings to AN8 to improve the oil flow to and from the oil cooler, might be worth considering even when not using a TOCA.

Anyway just some thoughts, good luck.
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Re: New Engine

Unread post by checkride » Sun Mar 06, 2016 4:04 pm

Hi,

I had that issue with the pipe on the left side of the cooler kinked at the top a while back so changed both lines, so lines are good. I wondering if there isnt any debris stuck inside the cooler from when the engine destroyed itself. I did wash it out with AVGAS but not under pressure, maybe a few of those vains are blocked off really dont know. Will take it off tomorrow and have the radiator checked and cleaned properly and change the filter.
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Re: New Engine

Unread post by checkride » Mon Mar 07, 2016 12:01 pm

Guys,

I am stumped removed the oil cooler and had it pressure and flow checked , all is good very little sediment was observed. Going to re-install and fit a new Oil Filter then see .
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Re: New Engine

Unread post by checkride » Tue Mar 08, 2016 11:51 pm

Today ran the engine on the ground could not get Oil temp above 35, OAT 20 so think this is a good sign tomorrow we fly. Also did blow By's 78,76,76,76,76,76....so no problems there.
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Re: New Engine

Unread post by checkride » Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:28 pm

Ok so success today. Only wish I had done one thing at a time this way I would of know what was the issue.

Continues Climb to 8000 ft doing 90 knots max oil temp was 90C. AOT was 17 C Max CHT was 181 . Cylinder 4,5,6 were the hottest, 176,177,181 during the climb EGT from 671-736. RPM 3210 23 HG TAS 101knots in the climb. WE happy now , in the cruise all normal...... :D :D
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Re: New Engine

Unread post by T4flyer » Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:04 am

Great to hear you got it sorted :D

What changed at the 25 hour service? If you only changed the oil to Aeroshell 100+ and installed a new filter it was always unlikely (but not impossible I guess) that the cooler "oil side" had suddenly blocked up, why would it. So if as you say very little sediment came out of the oil cooler and flow and pressure tests were normal, then we are back to the oil and oil filter change. To me it looks like maybe you are now one of the chaps that have had oil filter issues :shock:

Anyway great to hear your oil temperatures are back to normal.

Cheers, Don.
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Re: New Engine

Unread post by checkride » Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:55 am

[quote="T4flyer"]Great to hear you got it sorted :D

What changed at the 25 hour service? If you only changed the oil to Aeroshell 100+ and installed a new filter it was always unlikely (but not impossible I guess) that the cooler "oil side" had suddenly blocked up, why would it. So if as you say very little sediment came out of the oil cooler and flow and pressure tests were normal, then we are back to the oil and oil filter change. To me it looks like maybe you are now one of the chaps that have had oil filter issues :shock:

Anyway great to hear your oil temperatures are back to normal.

Cheers, Don.[/quote]


Nothing changed except the oil and filter. Don this what i am thinking as well, but why would an oil filter cause high oil temps doesn't make sense. Im also under the impression that the radiator place did not check before flown. I know I did and definitely noticed better flow of air through the radiator, just my impression. Anyway will keep an eye on it and see.
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Re: New Engine

Unread post by T4flyer » Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:02 pm

Hi Checkride,

If for some reason the oil filter was not flowing enough oil it could provide the same restriction in oil flow through your oil cooler as say a partially blocked oil line. Restrict the flow through the oil cooler and the oil temp will go up and the oil delivery to vital engine parts will be reduced. Of course the oil filter bypass is supposed to come into operation if the filter becomes blocked, but just how blocked would it need to be before the bypass came into operation? If your new filter for what ever reason was not flowing its 100% capacity, but was flowing enough to avoid building enough pressure to open the filter bypass, well then, high oil temperatures would be almost guaranteed. As I say, you would not be the first one in our Jabi community that has had an issue with a new oil filter.

I personally keep a very close eye on oil pressure and temps before and after each oil change precisely because I read of other guys who have had oil filter problems :shock:

Cheers, Don.
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Re: New Engine

Unread post by checkride » Thu Mar 10, 2016 4:59 pm

Don thanks for that information, fully understand
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Re: New Engine

Unread post by checkride » Fri Mar 11, 2016 7:03 pm

37 C at the field today no issues with Oil temp think its all solved , next to get those WCH on... :D :D
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Re: New Engine

Unread post by checkride » Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:18 pm

More testing 3.5 hrs today of hard flying no issues

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