Open Letter to the Community

Tips and Tricks to get the most out of your AvCom experience.

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jimdavis
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Re: Open Letter to the Community

Unread post by jimdavis » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:08 pm

cage wrote:
Avcom is entirely about opinion.
I am afraid that is simply not true. Much of the Academy & Flight Safety section is to do with an exchange of knowledge and facts.

And when opinions are stated, their value can only be judged by the standing, reputation and experience of the author. We all make this sort of judgement every day. We trust the financial guidance of the a stockbroker over that of our barber, bit only when we know of their histories and experience in the financial world.

In the bush, we put our life in the hands of an experienced professional-hunter, rather that a city-bred youngster. The hunter's opinion matters HUGELY - our lives depend on it.

Why should opinions in aviation be different?.

You state that you value the opinions of AMOs and Flight Instructors. But it seems you don't give them as much significance if they are expressed on this forum. I find that very hard to understand.

You say people take opinion very seriously. and, People, unfortunately, put a lot of stock in their own opinion. I think we all have to take the opinions of ourselves, and of others very seriously indeed, on a daily basis. How else could we be even half-way successful as bread-winners, family members, or members of a community?

Finally, it is Avcom's declared policy to encourage speculation, which, to my mind is simply opinion.

Jim
"SO OTHERS MAY LIVE - Flying Accidents Analysed". This book will be available soon. It asks: "Can Smart Pilots See Accidents Coming - And Avoid Them?" Get this and other Jim Davis books on Kindle at: http://www.jimdavis.co.za
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SaraLima
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Re: Open Letter to the Community

Unread post by SaraLima » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:13 pm

We are all entitled to our own opinions, but we are not entitled to our own facts. The problem arises when some people confuse the two :wink: :D

IMHO those people who are knowledgeable and experienced also have the wisdom not to be lured down the drain hole by those insecure individuals who are confused.
A debate is like any duel, a thrust should be met with a parry - If you counter a thrust with a thrust, you're going to get cut. :shock: 8) :D

@Richard - I agree totally with your comments below.. It's why I come here. :D

"So I guess the bottom line is this - Avcom is a powerful learning tool, post your opinions, but don't be too precious about them. If someone dismantles them, and hands them back in better shape, then Avcom had done its job. The only way learning can take place is when you accept that your own truth is not the complete truth, and that there is always space for refinement at least, and sometimes complete redirection.

Be jubilant if someone has the ability to lay that pearl before you."
There are three simple rules for making a perfect landing. Unfortunately, no one knows what they are.
I was flying in uniform when you were still in liquid form :wink:
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cage
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Re: Open Letter to the Community

Unread post by cage » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:29 pm

jimdavis wrote: Edited for brevity..

I am afraid that is simply not true. Much of the Academy & Flight Safety section is to do with an exchange of knowledge and facts...

And when opinions are stated, their value can only be judged by the standing, reputation and experience of the author. We all make this sort of judgement every day. We trust the financial guidance of the a stockbroker over that of our barber, bit only when we know of their histories and experience in the financial world.

In the bush, we put our life in the hands of an experienced professional-hunter, rather that a city-bred youngster. The hunter's opinion matters HUGELY - our lives depend on it.

Why should opinions in aviation be different?.

You state that you value the opinions of AMOs and Flight Instructors. But it seems you don't give them as much significance if they are expressed on this forum. I find that very hard to understand.
You are correct in a number of ways.
On the forum, as I have stated, anonymity varies. So maybe you know the person and I don't, we will then interpret what is said differently.
Not everyone here is who they seem, face to face at the AMO or with your instructor you know who you are dealing with and if they steer you wrong you can give them a kicking.

Knowledge on it's own isn't necessarily factual.
A doctor can explain a medical procedure to you, that would be factual.
You may, based on your experience, be saying something you believe to be true but could, for example, be flawed or outdated. We see people posting rules of thumb and you then read from someone else that it's a not the right approach. Both are knowledge-based (ie learned) but both are more opinion than an absolute fact.
Quoting a section of the CARs is factual. Stating your interpretation of the relevant CAR may be opinion.

The due diligence is entirely on the person reading to make up their own mind or to seek some more clarity before absorbing or discarding. With 20000 members having different experience levels and ages, this can be a little more challenging.

WRT to financial guidance, if bitcoin is anything to go by many have gone with the advice of their barber ;)
Many a financial planner has bamboozled someone out of their hard earned money. It's why we have heavy regulation and penalties to make sure they behave in a consistent and professional manner and don't take advantage of the varying levels of good judgement that people have.
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Mauler
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Re: Open Letter to the Community

Unread post by Mauler » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:20 pm

SaraLima wrote:We are all entitled to our own opinions, but we are not entitled to our own facts. The problem arises when some people confuse the two :wink: :D
There is no such thing as "facts". There is only people's perception of what they believe to be true.

10 witnesses to the same event will see 10 different things.

There are some here who state as fact that there is a mysterious, all-seeing, all-loving, all-knowing, all-controlling entity that takes pleasure in observing the misery on this planet - and others who only see facts as things they can see and touch.

That's my opinion, it's a fact, and I'm sticking to it!
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SlowApproach
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Re: Open Letter to the Community

Unread post by SlowApproach » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:48 pm

Talking about facts and opinion…

Remember Beltel? And before that, the dial-up BBSes? (Yes, children, us old folks communicated via computers loooooong before the Internet was born). We even had some seriously disrespectful trolls back then!

For example, one particularly nasty individual was taking offence at anything and everything people were writing about, especially my submissions. After the umpteenth trolling challenge I got tired of this and merely retorted, “I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man” - and with that one simple sentence - all hell broke loose on the forum as the troll went berserk - swearing* at all and sundry and even making death threats! (* Remember, those days, filters were things only found on the end of sissies’ cigarettes). I later found out that this bloke was a mullet-hairstyled boozer who had lost an arm in a motorcycle accident (and quite possibly lost part of his brain too because he obviously didn’t understand my retort at all).

The moral of the story thus: Do nasty trolls deserve respect too? Nah. :shock: :lol:
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SaraLima
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Re: Open Letter to the Community

Unread post by SaraLima » Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:03 pm

Mauler wrote: There is no such thing as "facts". There is only people's perception of what they believe to be true.
Ai ..Ai..Ai.. and you were doing so well on this thread until that remark.. Suggest an upgrade of the brand of scotch may improve logic - alternatively a reduction in the consumption quantity of the poorer brand has been known to have the same effect :wink: :lol:
There are three simple rules for making a perfect landing. Unfortunately, no one knows what they are.
I was flying in uniform when you were still in liquid form :wink:
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Mauler
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Re: Open Letter to the Community

Unread post by Mauler » Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:27 pm

SlowApproach wrote:Remember Beltel?
Wow. Now there's a memory. The main manne all had Minitel terminals. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beltel

I mostly cut my teeth on FidoNet and Usenet, which I see are still active. In fact, Usenet traffic volumes continue to grow!

Unix's UUCP was a fantastic invention which still has relevance. The original "mesh networking".
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Mauler
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Re: Open Letter to the Community

Unread post by Mauler » Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:33 pm

SaraLima wrote:Ai ..Ai..Ai.. and you were doing so well on this thread until that remark..
Oi! I am thoroughly deserving of a number 1 and was considering you for a number 2, but you've just disqualified yourself.
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SaraLima
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Re: Open Letter to the Community

Unread post by SaraLima » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:53 pm

Mauler wrote: Oi! I am thoroughly deserving of a number 1 and was considering you for a number 2, but you've just disqualified yourself.
I was gunning for the number 2 slot and you completely missed the implicit bribe there.. "Upgrade of the brand of scotch..." :wink:
There are three simple rules for making a perfect landing. Unfortunately, no one knows what they are.
I was flying in uniform when you were still in liquid form :wink:

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