Open Letter to the Community

Tips and Tricks to get the most out of your AvCom experience.

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Fransw
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Re: Open Letter to the Community

Unread post by Fransw » Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:40 pm

Fyko wrote:The majority of posts on this forum are 'vanity posts' insofar as they as they serve the vanity of the poster rather than the content or the quality of the forum.

Let me say right away that there are some (sadly a minority) of posts that are immensely informative and enlightening. Whenever some aviation event is reported in the media I turn immediately to this forum for the lowdown and the skinny. This is a group of incredibly knowledgeable people and they are absolutely worth listening to. But there's also a fair amount of chaff between the wheat.

The owners of Avcom might think about extending the site's PHP to include an Upvote/Downvote facility such as we have for example on Quora.com. Each post can be up or down voted by every reader, and the current score is shown on the post itself. This means that the poster now seeks to serve his vanity by attracting as many upvotes as he can. and this depends on the quality of the post that he produces, as perceived by the readers at large.

Since most readers are able to discern quality when they see it, and since vain posters (aren't we all) seek a high approval rating, this encourages quality over ever other consideration.

The member's current total upvote/downvote score is also displayed on his ID, more or less where rather juvenile system of 'pilotspeak' post score is displayed at present. You can then see at a glance whether a member's post is worth reading or not. Quality is rewarded rather than quantity, people are judged by how well they write rather than by how often they write.
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richard C
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Re: Open Letter to the Community

Unread post by richard C » Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:25 pm

Whirly wrote:
Brand wrote:Very sensible post Fyko - and I could not agree more...
............................and I could not agree less! :roll:

Whirly.
Sheez - with my unpopular point of view I will be off Avcom by weeks end.

The problem with this concept is that you reduce wisdom and knowledge to a popularity contest. People like Mauler tell you what you need to hear, not what you want to hear. He makes no friends that way, but that is not his objective (although he shouldn't forget to take his pills on occasion). His voice would be silenced by a system like this.
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SaraLima
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Re: Open Letter to the Community

Unread post by SaraLima » Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:55 pm

Fyko wrote: The owners of Avcom might think about extending the site's PHP to include an Upvote/Downvote facility such as we have for example on Quora.com. Each post can be up or down voted by every reader, and the current score is shown on the post itself. This means that the poster now seeks to serve his vanity by attracting as many upvotes as he can. and this depends on the quality of the post that he produces, as perceived by the readers at large.
Hi Fyko.. Wouldn't that be turning AVCom into a kind of Facebook? Like where people measure themselves by how many "likes" they got? Or even worse how many "friends" they have - even though most of the "friends" are unknown Internet strangers who have clicked a link.. :wink:

I would hate to delete one of my chirps simply because Cage or Burner are going to flame me with a "thumbs down".. 8-[

I love the interactions here, even Mauler's posts are sometimes worth reading.. And his chick picks are unbeatable (or is that "beatable"?) and would hate to see some sort of artificial rating system add a skew to the fun. :D
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Re: Open Letter to the Community

Unread post by V5 - LEO » Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:58 pm

...AvCom in a way provide for this by the different tier system of General, Academy, our aircraft etc etc. Bonus point is that you can exercise your constitutional right and choose what post, thread or tier you would like to read or partake in.
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Marius Schrenk
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Re: Open Letter to the Community

Unread post by Marius Schrenk » Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:06 pm

V5 - LEO wrote:...AvCom in a way provide for this by the different tier system of General, Academy, our aircraft etc etc. Bonus point is that you can exercise your constitutional right and choose what post, thread or tier you would like to read or partake in.
and who's posts you report it seems. :twisted:(because you are "offended"....instead of drinking your tablets . :roll:
Politics attracts crooks and lawyers,most of the time its the same person.
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Re: Open Letter to the Community

Unread post by V5 - LEO » Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:11 pm

Marius Schrenk wrote:
V5 - LEO wrote:...AvCom in a way provide for this by the different tier system of General, Academy, our aircraft etc etc. Bonus point is that you can exercise your constitutional right and choose what post, thread or tier you would like to read or partake in.
and who's posts you report it seems. :twisted:(because you are "offended"....instead of drinking your tablets . :roll:

...spot on :lol: :lol: - so actually AvCom is better then than the other forum =D> =D>
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Mauler
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Re: Open Letter to the Community

Unread post by Mauler » Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:17 pm

AvCom is ultimately a discussion forum where people should feel free to talk about whatever they like without fear of having every statement analysed, censored and proclaimed acceptable. Ordinary norms should apply, just like if you are at your local club, pub or at a braai.

It is not acceptable to proscribe discussion in any way other than that would ordinarily be applied by the clubhouse manager, the barmaid or your host at a braai. It is also unacceptable for you to behave in a way that is sufficiently offensive that your fellows would take exception and throw you in the swimming pool.

If I'm invited to a braai and everyone is invited to rate me and note up/down scores on all my utterances, I'd not visit very often. On the other hand, engaging me in conversation in a way that encourages me to review my opinions or learn something new is something that I treasure.

The difficulty with modern electronic conversation is that it tends to be recorded for posterity. Some judges in the very few successful defamation suits that happen tend to confuse that fact with "publication", merely because whatever was said is accessible.

Roger's recent postings about defamation and this thread are rather obviously as a result of threats by people who are either opposed to the free exchange of information and ideas, have something to hide or are on a power trip disguised as sensitivity. The people who threaten defamation suits are more often than not defamers themselves. In his original posting on this thread, Roger says "If you ask my opinion as to whether we are still what was once a strong community, my answer has to be a categorical No!" Then he tells us whose views he bases his opinion on. Obviously not those people whose opinions we here hold in high esteem. Go figure.

Yet the opinions expressed here on AvCom itself differ hugely from that. My own view is that AvCom is something of a national treasure. I've been trying to convince my fellow AOPA directors over the last couple of weeks that AOPA should establish an AvCom Protection Fund that would protect posters and AvCom itself from frivolous threats of lawsuits. They seem unconvinced so far, but I'm working on them!
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Re: Open Letter to the Community

Unread post by richard C » Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:03 am

*speechless*
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Re: Open Letter to the Community

Unread post by Marius Schrenk » Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:28 am

richard C wrote:*speechless*
On that note...where is speechmore? 8)
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Re: Open Letter to the Community

Unread post by Whirly » Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:56 am

richard C wrote:*speechless*
Yes, me too. Pretty well stated by Mauler.

Whirly.
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Fransw
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Re: Open Letter to the Community

Unread post by Fransw » Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:28 pm

Whirly wrote:
richard C wrote:*speechless*
Yes, me too. Pretty well stated by Mauler.

Whirly.
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Re: Open Letter to the Community

Unread post by SlowApproach » Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:53 pm

My take on the issue of Respect (or lack thereof):

A happy, self confident person does not put others down. Period.

They might provide constructive criticism but they won’t put others down. And I'm not talking about the ribbing that sometimes takes place (which can be very funny and entertaining), but the oh-so-serious "I know a lot more than you do because I'm a Somebody and you're just a Nobody."

It's called Rankism, which is an (often misplaced) assertion of superiority. It typically takes the form of putting others down so they can feel better about themselves. It's what "Somebodies" do to "Nobodies." Or, more precisely, it is what people who *think* they're Somebodies do to people they take for Nobodies. (However, what self-styled Somebodies usually don't realise is that the supposed Nobodies may actually be genuine Somebodies, but just in another sphere of life. These Nobodies who are actually Somebody usually exhibit one trait that eludes the majority of successful people: Humility, and, having self-confidence, have no need to tell or remind others that they are a Somebody).

Put in another way: “Why would I care if you think I'm a Nobody and even called me an idiot? I would only care if it were true. Since I know it’s not, it doesn’t bother me.”
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Re: Open Letter to the Community

Unread post by happyskipper » Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:50 pm

SlowApproach wrote:My take on the issue of Respect (or lack thereof):

A happy, self confident person does not put others down. Period.

They might provide constructive criticism but they won’t put others down. And I'm not talking about the ribbing that sometimes takes place (which can be very funny and entertaining), but the oh-so-serious "I know a lot more than you do because I'm a Somebody and you're just a Nobody."

It's called Rankism, which is an (often misplaced) assertion of superiority. It typically takes the form of putting others down so they can feel better about themselves. It's what "Somebodies" do to "Nobodies." Or, more precisely, it is what people who *think* they're Somebodies do to people they take for Nobodies. (However, what self-styled Somebodies usually don't realise is that the supposed Nobodies may actually be genuine Somebodies, but just in another sphere of life. These Nobodies who are actually Somebody usually exhibit one trait that eludes the majority of successful people: Humility, and, having self-confidence, have no need to tell or remind others that they are a Somebody).

Put in another way: “Why would I care if you think I'm a Nobody and even called me an idiot? I would only care if it were true. Since I know it’s not, it doesn’t bother me.”
I agree, partially - the thing that gets my goat is when people with a genuine concern for others' safety and well-being are shot down as "overbearing know-it-alls" and various other terms - when all they want to do is help others not to make the mistakes they made, or witnessed.
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Re: Open Letter to the Community

Unread post by richard C » Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:36 am

Jim's LCC is not about being politically correct, or tip-toe-ing around egos. It's about saving lives.

When it comes to aviation safety, there can be no pussy-footing.

I would rather speak out and be wrong, than modestly hold my tongue, and watch someone die.

...are all attitudes that have merit.

I suppose it is how we state these arguments that makes or breaks them.
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Re: Open Letter to the Community

Unread post by kudu177 » Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:49 am

cage wrote:
Marius Schrenk wrote:
cage wrote:
We all believe in offending everyone equally, and without exception ;)
But not so much Heli pilots :roll:
Heli pilots are far less easily offended. You need a sense of humour to fly rotary.
Or a sense of the absurd, more like. :twisted:

Although flying recently on a game capture op in a R44 near Kimberley was an incredible amount of fun.
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