Open Letter to the Community

Tips and Tricks to get the most out of your AvCom experience.

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happyskipper
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Re: Open Letter to the Community

Unread post by happyskipper » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:39 pm

Whirly wrote:
Iceberg wrote:+1 Avcom is not for sissies. :twisted:
It is mostly for (us) chopper pilots........................................but occasionally we allow others to say a word or two! :twisted:

So tow the line! :smt021

Whirly.
Uhm - Whirley, the usual pedantic plank-wing operator would like to correct your comment "tow the line". :cry:
The correct term is "Toe the line" and refers back to the good old days when discipline was still maintained in the British Navy. Sailors were told to "toe the line" when assembling for orders on deck - the line being the gap between the planks of the deck - usually stuffed with cotton and painted over, but clearly visible.
Anyone not obeying orders would be "politely requested" to "toe the line" or face a severe punishment such as whipping or keel-hauling. Something I dearly miss in this present day and age.... :wink:
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Re: Open Letter to the Community

Unread post by Whirly » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:42 pm

happyskipper wrote:
Whirly wrote:
Iceberg wrote:+1 Avcom is not for sissies. :twisted:
It is mostly for (us) chopper pilots........................................but occasionally we allow others to say a word or two! :twisted:

So tow the line! :smt021

Whirly.
Uhm - Whirley, the usual pedantic plank-wing operator would like to correct your comment "tow the line". :cry:
The correct term is "Toe the line" and refers back to the good old days when discipline was still maintained in the British Navy. Sailors were told to "toe the line" when assembling for orders on deck - the line being the gap between the planks of the deck - usually stuffed with cotton and painted over, but clearly visible.
Anyone not obeying orders would be "politely requested" to "toe the line" or face a severe punishment such as whipping or keel-hauling. Something I dearly miss in this present day and age.... :wink:
It's Whirly, not Whirley btw. :D If I say "tow the line", I mean "tow the line" and stuff those British sailors. :lol: :lol: :twisted:

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Marius Schrenk
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Re: Open Letter to the Community

Unread post by Marius Schrenk » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:46 pm

happyskipper wrote: "toe the line" or face a severe punishment such as whipping or keel-hauling. Something I dearly miss in this present day and age.... :wink:
:shock: How many whip's have you got ? :wink:
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happyskipper
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Re: Open Letter to the Community

Unread post by happyskipper » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:52 pm

Marius Schrenk wrote:
happyskipper wrote: "toe the line" or face a severe punishment such as whipping or keel-hauling. Something I dearly miss in this present day and age.... :wink:
:shock: How many whip's have you got ? :wink:
Sadly, none - it's frowned upon in Mozambique - for some reason..... :roll:
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Re: Open Letter to the Community

Unread post by SlowApproach » Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:30 pm

Something else to remember: Language and therefore the ability to communicate properly should also be respected. Accordingly, please use proper punctuation and grammar when hurling insults at someone.
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Re: Open Letter to the Community

Unread post by Airwayfreak » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:39 pm

happyskipper wrote:was still maintained in the British Navy. :
And since we are on the subject of being pedantic, its not the British Navy, its the Royal Navy. (There is history as to why its not the Royal Army but the British Army)
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Re: Open Letter to the Community

Unread post by SaraLima » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:05 am

SlowApproach wrote:Something else to remember: Language and therefore the ability to communicate properly should also be respected. Accordingly, please use proper punctuation and grammar when hurling insults at someone.
Hi Slow.. you have my agreement on that :smt045

To me, there is nothing worse than being insulted in bad grammar and spelling.. Its like being insulted in a foreign language. :lol: In fact, the poor grammar/spelling gets my teeth on edge more than the insults (to which I am largely immune :wink: )

I do sometimes wonder if posters bother to use the spellcheck feature in the forum :?:
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Re: Open Letter to the Community

Unread post by Roger » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:29 am

An appeal to refrain from the use of undesirable language too please. We do have a number of youngsters watching the fora.
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Re: Open Letter to the Community

Unread post by HJK 414 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:36 am

SlowApproach wrote:Something else to remember: Language and therefore the ability to communicate properly should also be respected. Accordingly, please use proper punctuation and grammar when hurling insults at someone.

+ 1

And for all you illiterate aviators that have spelling issues ...... :idea:

This is how you spell : supercalifragilisticexpialidocious


JK
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Re: Open Letter to the Community

Unread post by SaraLima » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:39 am

Roger wrote:An appeal to refrain from the use of undesirable language too please. We do have a number of youngsters watching the fora.
Hi Roger.. do, for example, "dee - double zero - five" or "Ay - fifty five" categorise as "undesirable? :wink: :lol:

Sometimes one simply has to resort to the more "expressive" forms of writing, and I would find it hard to resist falling back on the occasional expletive :wink: :D
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Re: Open Letter to the Community

Unread post by V5 - LEO » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:22 am

Roger wrote:An appeal to refrain from the use of undesirable language too please. We do have a number of youngsters watching the fora.

....sorry guilty, but no other word in Afrikaans is so expressive and descriptive as "excretion" :wink:
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Re: Open Letter to the Community

Unread post by richard C » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:08 am

I am all for robust debate. But you can be direct, or even downright unambiguous in your statements, and still not be rude.

As Mauler correctly observes - one must play the opinion and not the man.

So I guess the bottom line is this - Avcom is a powerful learning tool, post your opinions, but don't be too precious about them. If someone dismantles them, and hands them back in better shape, then Avcom had done its job. The only way learning can take place is when you accept that your own truth is not the complete truth, and that there is always space for refinement at least, and sometimes complete redirection.

Be jubilant if someone has the ability to lay that pearl before you.
Grant all equity and dignity.
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Re: Open Letter to the Community

Unread post by cage » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:46 am

richard C wrote:...Avcom is a powerful learning tool, post your opinions, but don't be too precious about them. If someone dismantles them, and hands them back in better shape, then Avcom had done its job. The only way learning can take place is when you accept that your own truth is not the complete truth, and that there is always space for refinement at least, and sometimes complete redirection.
Avcom is entirely about opinion.
The quality and accuracy of that opinion may vary, but opinion it remains - provided without warranty.
As a learning tool, what you learn will be up to the reader to discern what they consider relevant or correct and this in itself is flawed.
My argument would be that if your primary goal is to learn then your time should be spent with an AMO or flight instructor and not with a diverse group of people using varying degrees of anonymity.

People, unfortunately, put a lot of stock in their own opinion or react quite viscerally if something is said that goes against their own beliefs, it seems to be forgotten that it is simply a point of view. Little more.
I have noticed that those who deem themselves experienced sometimes don't respond well to being asked to justify a point of view, because that sort of thing just isn't done.
Then you have those that don't seem to have, or rather share, an opinion but would rather just take exception to someone else's view largely because they consider everyone else to be less experienced than they are.
You know the type, they resort to the oldest form of online bullying - demanding the phonecall, the "who are you" PM, mutterings at the airfield and waving the logbook and list of ratings to justify why they are above the discussion.
Some do take opinion very seriously.

Perhaps people have such a sensitive sense of self-worth that they find discussion threatening and an affront to all they stand for and believe in.
Avcom isn't a church. It is not sacrosanct.
While serious topics may be discussed, they are just a collection of thoughts from a very diverse group, not one of which has any more or less standing than another.
(from all the jockeying to be seen and heard and marking of territory this obviously isn't the case)

The end result of all this is weak discussion, with the same few people contributing. A quiet observer will read, or not, all of the noise and likely move on feeling that contributing is pointless and taking little away apart from a poor perception of what goes on within the alleged community.
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richard C
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Re: Open Letter to the Community

Unread post by richard C » Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:22 am

Cage

There are clearly people on this forum who are well known to be experienced and knowledgeable. I tend to know who I am prepared to listen to.

Challenge them to what end ? Do you have better information than them ? Are you better qualified, experienced, to bring their knowledge into question ? Or do you just like to challenge to show that they don't know everything, even though the first person to make such an admission is normally the most experienced and knowledgeable person making it - the highest level of the Dunning-Kruger edifice.

What is the point of your challenge ? To show that not everybody knows everything ? They know that.

To show that you know better ? Do you ? You have strong opinions on fixed wing ops, though you say you don't fly them.

To show your skill at argument and logic ? Again, to what end ?

The only thing that weakens discussion on this forum is people who arrive with nothing more than an axe to grind.
Grant all equity and dignity.
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cage
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Re: Open Letter to the Community

Unread post by cage » Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:47 am

richard C wrote:Cage

There are clearly people on this forum who are well known to be experienced and knowledgeable. I tend to know who I am prepared to listen to.

Challenge them to what end ? Do you have better information than them ? Are you better qualified, experienced, to bring their knowledge into question ? Or do you just like to challenge to show that they don't know everything, even though the first person to make such an admission is normally the most experienced and knowledgeable person making it - the highest level of the Dunning-Kruger edifice.

What is the point of your challenge ? To show that not everybody knows everything ? They know that.

To show that you know better ? Do you ? You have strong opinions on fixed wing ops, though you say you don't fly them.

To show your skill at argument and logic ? Again, to what end ?

The only thing that weakens discussion on this forum is people who arrive with nothing more than an axe to grind.
You misunderstand, reading in too much in what was said.
When an opinion is stated as fact, sometimes it begs the question why someone thinks that. Perhaps it's right, maybe not but a fundamental premise about discussion is understanding why a belief is held and asking that isn't inappropriate.
If you arrive on this forum, or any other, expecting to preach then don't be offended if someone wants to ask a question or two.
For anyone that is that experienced or professional, either being able to communicate that initially or to respond to someone reasonably asking you to justify a perspective, it should not be that difficult.
If you are that adverse to bi-directional discussion then rather join the military.

While you may know who you wish to listen to, the broad majority of the thousands of mainly silent members may not.

PS, since you decided to play the man, I don't recall ever having a "strong" opinion on fixed wing ops, an opinion from time to time, yes. I do however having a strong opinion on when judgement, blame, amongst others are dolled out - and that isn't restricted to category of aircraft.

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