Question re IF departure from Stellenbosch

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Hop Harrigan
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Question re IF departure from Stellenbosch

Unread post by Hop Harrigan » Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:44 am

Hi,
I’m planning on departing Stellenbosch to George, VFR takeoff transitioning to IFR.
ATC appear to want a physical or reporting point for the transition and don’t seem to like the use of a point based on coordinates. I want to be IFR before leaving the basin area ie before Sr Lowery’s. So how do I file?
I was advised to file FASH DCT CTV DCT FAGG. Is the CTV leg acceptable or will ATC object?
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Re: Question re IF departure from Stellenbosch

Unread post by Trevor Duane » Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:24 pm

Hop Harrigan wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:44 am
Hi,
I’m planning on departing Stellenbosch to George, VFR takeoff transitioning to IFR.
ATC appear to want a physical or reporting point for the transition and don’t seem to like the use of a point based on coordinates. I want to be IFR before leaving the basin area ie before Sr Lowery’s. So how do I file?
I was advised to file FASH DCT CTV DCT FAGG. Is the CTV leg acceptable or will ATC object?
Hop
I see no reason why they would have an issue with that route to CTV and then outbound from there. I would give them a call and find out before filing though.
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Re: Question re IF departure from Stellenbosch

Unread post by Swampdonkey » Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:36 pm

From the flight planning side you need to give a point where you'll be changing to IFR. ATNS Briefing (F2F) accepts coordinates.

You'll need a CLNCE before you can enter Controlled airspace.

What I'd do is get airborne in the normal manner, route towards the transition point being careful not to enter controlled airspace, (in this case stay below the TMA) and then call Appch (124.35Mhz) to activate your FLT PLN and get a CLNCE.
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Re: Question re IF departure from Stellenbosch

Unread post by Trevor Duane » Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:01 pm

Swampdonkey wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:36 pm
From the flight planning side you need to give a point where you'll be changing to IFR. ATNS Briefing (F2F) accepts coordinates.

You'll need a CLNCE before you can enter Controlled airspace.

What I'd do is get airborne in the normal manner, route towards the transition point being careful not to enter controlled airspace, (in this case stay below the TMA) and then call Appch (124.35Mhz) to activate your FLT PLN and get a CLNCE.
Very logical approach Derek, but to get back to Hop's question how would you go about the route then. If I understand you correctly you are suggesting not DCT - CTV but instead DCT - specific coordinates within the class C airspace ?
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Re: Question re IF departure from Stellenbosch

Unread post by Swampdonkey » Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:43 pm

Normally one would enter or leave Controlled airspace at a given point, This is what the ATC's like, but nothing prevents one (in this case), once cleared, from climbing into controlled airspace (TMA) enroute to a designated point. Once the controlling authority has ID'd you they will issue a clearance to enter, probably a vector or DCT to a waypoint laterally and an altitude or level vertically.

Typically (again in this case) from FASH one would route to the south parallel to the CTR BNDY (but outside the CTR) and below the TMA maintaining VMC iaw VFR until cleared to enter, then one may be routed (for example) to PSN OKTED and then onwards. Once under cntl ATC is assuming that you are in IMC regardless of your actual flight conditions, and will separate you from Terrain and Traffic.
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Re: Question re IF departure from Stellenbosch

Unread post by Hop Harrigan » Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:47 pm

Thanks Swamp,
More or less the way I understood it but was going to file to CTV (although I had no intention of routing there), rather than a co-ordinate point which I previously had a problem getting the system to accept.
I will just file DCT OKTED and contact Approach before entering the TMA.
BTW do you know how to get hold of Approach over the telephone...I’ve tried calling them on the radio prior to takeoff but there’s no radio contact from FASH.
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Re: Question re IF departure from Stellenbosch

Unread post by Swampdonkey » Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:16 pm

You can try calling them, but my experience has been that they'll just tell you to do what I've outlined above. you can sometimes get hold of them from the holding point of RWY01 at FASH. 021 937 1116
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Re: Question re IF departure from Stellenbosch

Unread post by Hop Harrigan » Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:17 am

Hi Swamp,
Used that number and nice Gent on the other end activated my FPL and gave me a squawk. Big help once airborne as the weather was sheit and I needed to climb pretty smartly.
That was yesterday (Friday) and interestingly I picked up some ice at 6500’ about 20nm East of Sr Lowries.
Hop
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Re: Question re IF departure from Stellenbosch

Unread post by MemyselfandI » Fri Apr 02, 2021 7:40 pm

Swampdonkey...and others, allow me to correct you on one important point. ATC is only responsible for terrain clearance if you are being vectored, ie, getting headings to fly. All other instances YOU are responsible for terrain clearance !
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Re: Question re IF departure from Stellenbosch

Unread post by Swampdonkey » Sat Apr 03, 2021 8:38 am

MemyselfandI wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 7:40 pm
Swampdonkey...and others, allow me to correct you on one important point. ATC is only responsible for terrain clearance if you are being vectored, ie, getting headings to fly. All other instances YOU are responsible for terrain clearance !
Quite correct, but in the context of the question, the initial clearance in this case would probably be vectors for example "Enter the TMA on heading ### and climb to FL***"
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Re: Question re IF departure from Stellenbosch

Unread post by MemyselfandI » Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:43 am

"Enter the TMA on heading ### and climb to FL***"
You're opening a different can of worms here. For ATC to vector you, you need to be above the lowest safe IFR level. So you won't get "enter the TMA on HDG climbing to" from ATC. You'll simply get "climb to Alt XYZ" and once above lowest safe IFR level then only receive vectors.
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Re: Question re IF departure from Stellenbosch

Unread post by Swampdonkey » Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:53 am

MemyselfandI wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:43 am
"Enter the TMA on heading ### and climb to FL***"
You're opening a different can of worms here. For ATC to vector you, you need to be above the lowest safe IFR level. So you won't get "enter the TMA on HDG climbing to" from ATC. You'll simply get "climb to Alt XYZ" and once above lowest safe IFR level then only receive vectors.
In the context of the question! Hat coat door.
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Re: Question re IF departure from Stellenbosch

Unread post by MemyselfandI » Sat Apr 03, 2021 11:40 am

In the context of the question.... you will NOT get vectors, as you keep mentioning, until you're above MVA. That's all I'm pointing out, to dispell the expectation of terrain clearance prematurely from ATC.
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Re: Question re IF departure from Stellenbosch

Unread post by Swampdonkey » Sat Apr 03, 2021 11:54 am

This is why Avcom sucks, lots of "karens" on high horses.
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Re: Question re IF departure from Stellenbosch

Unread post by MemyselfandI » Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:16 pm

:roll:

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