Investing in a farm in SA now.(non political discussion!!!)

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Investing in a farm in SA now.(non political discussion!!!)

Unread post by Fransw » Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:21 pm

From what I can see investing in a farm in SA is still a solid investment!?( Not all but some)

What do you think. Yes or no. Why or why not?
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Re: Investing in a farm in SA now.(non political discussion!!!)

Unread post by Falafel » Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:04 pm

Non political discussion doesnt leave much room to discuss, but I will try.... :wink:

Speculative at best for a variety of reasons... security of ownership is the core of the discussion (deeds)... if you can come to terms with that issue you will have the answer...
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Re: Investing in a farm in SA now.(non political discussion!!!)

Unread post by Jean Crous » Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:35 pm

Falafel wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:04 pm
Non political discussion doesnt leave much room to discuss, but I will try.... :wink:

Speculative at best for a variety of reasons... security of ownership is the core of the discussion (deeds)... if you can come to terms with that issue you will have the answer...
Agree 100%, therein lies the conundrum .
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Re: Investing in a farm in SA now.(non political discussion!!!)

Unread post by Marius Schrenk » Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:44 pm

Jean Crous wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:35 pm
Falafel wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:04 pm
Non political discussion doesnt leave much room to discuss, but I will try.... :wink:

Speculative at best for a variety of reasons... security of ownership is the core of the discussion (deeds)... if you can come to terms with that issue you will have the answer...
Agree 100%, therein lies the conundrum .
Jean
You cannot separate the two. (The value of land and politics) Land value is dictated by the potential profit to be made on the land...AND THE SECURITY OF THE DEED. Land in Zim/Moz has at many places better potential to be farmed profitable....but it is valueless due to political factors (as in security of deeds) If however you could rent land (with zero interest in future value of the land itself)and you are into short term crops it is still possible to make a profit(if you can limit the steeling and murder to you in person) I would not invest in more land at the moment....which might be the bigger picture plan :idea:Lets face it the lifestyle is unbeatable but only up to the point where you need a security force to maintain it. :twisted:
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Re: Investing in a farm in SA now.(non political discussion!!!)

Unread post by spokes » Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:45 pm

A farm is just a piece of soil and rock. And worth as much.
For it to have value it must be farmed and that is extremely expensive and labor intensive.
I grow fruit and have been spending money since 2008. The life style is unbeatable and monetary/political security is on par with any other job locally.
I see no future in medicine from which I retired in 2018 so I started the farm. After 1994 government released agriculture to its own devises. I suppose with the intention that the farms will fail. Exactly the opposite happened.
The conundrum is not land value/security. Its should you stay or go. I decided to stay and swapped industries to where Government obviously turned a blind eye.
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Re: Investing in a farm in SA now.(non political discussion!!!)

Unread post by C Africa » Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:16 am

Farming land is still a good investment. The normal rules of property applies though. There are three rules about property values, these are:
  • Location
    Location
    location
For farming it can be even more important. If you are anywhere near densely populated areas, or even near a busy road, then theft becomes a major problem. Together with theft, is the security issue of the inhabitants.

There are many areas in the country though where this consideration is of little importance, and these are the areas to target.

Just remember, as someone has mentioned already, just buying a farm is only the first step. Working a farm is a capital intensive and complicated process and is not for the faint of heart.


C
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Re: Investing in a farm in SA now.(non political discussion!!!)

Unread post by Mouser » Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:51 am

It is a great lifestyle, provided you can minimise the stress of uncertainty. There is a lot of dairy farming in my area and when an acquaintance swapped this for a fruit farm I thought he'd made a great decision; then came the WC drought! Now comes Covid and export difficulties. Another friend who farms avos in NZ loves it; stable, organised and lucrative; it just rains too much :mrgreen: .

Bottom line could come under "location" but it is do your homework, again and again. Particularly if you don't know that much about the type of farming you are getting into. The security of ownership is massive for me as it cannot be rationalised or factored in on the (deliberately confusing) information out there from the ANC. Then comes personal security and crime risk.
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Re: Investing in a farm in SA now.(non political discussion!!!)

Unread post by Falafel » Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:28 am

Mouser wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:51 am
It is a great lifestyle, provided you can minimise the stress of uncertainty. There is a lot of dairy farming in my area and when an acquaintance swapped this for a fruit farm I thought he'd made a great decision; then came the WC drought! Now comes Covid and export difficulties. Another friend who farms avos in NZ loves it; stable, organised and lucrative; it just rains too much :mrgreen: .

Bottom line could come under "location" but it is do your homework, again and again. Particularly if you don't know that much about the type of farming you are getting into. The security of ownership is massive for me as it cannot be rationalised or factored in on the (deliberately confusing) information out there from the ANC. Then comes personal security and crime risk.
So as far as I would guess... the best farm land to buy in SA would be:

1. Where there is a lack of informal settlements surrounding / close by
2. Land Claims are not existent
3. Frankly where no one wants to live (potential invader)

So... likely narrows it down somewhat... I get the feeling that most land claims are (not debating whether valid or not)... also based on where the land is. No one wants to live in the middle of the desert.... but that doesnt make for good farming land either...

So anyone care to name one of these "locations" where farming might be a good option in SA :?:

I think many people have a dream of owning a small farm and making a living from it... Not discounting the fact that its a #@$%#@% load of work but I guess it has something to do with mans desire to support, sustain and create for himself... all the while not encountering a taxi, carrying 30 pax, barrelling down a highway :!:
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Re: Investing in a farm in SA now.(non political discussion!!!)

Unread post by Fransw » Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:01 am

I have no data or stats to support this but I think the Karoo/Ncape/Wcape farms are safer(crime wise).?...

Edit:
Although safer is commonly used more often in casual speaking, more safe is grammatically correct More safe is however, more commonly used in writing, rather than spoken.
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Re: Investing in a farm in SA now.(non political discussion!!!)

Unread post by C Africa » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:46 pm

Karoo, Bushmanland, Kalahari.... yes these are all potential areas and right now, as a result of the recent drought, there are many farms on the market which has depressed prices. So with the currently favourable interest rates, a buy now would be a good call (it would be a mistake to think you can "farm" the interest out of the farm, farm land is for people who have capital. Using a loan, generates interest which is tax deductible though and can be beneficially used if you won't have to rely on the farm to repay it).


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Re: Investing in a farm in SA now.(non political discussion!!!)

Unread post by Rotor kop » Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:04 pm

Fransw wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:01 am
I have no data or stats to support this but I think the Karoo/Ncape/Wcape farms are safer(crime wise).?...

Edit:
Although safer is commonly used more often in casual speaking, more safe is grammatically correct More safe is however, more commonly used in writing, rather than spoken.
Nowhere is safe. There appear to be less in the mentioned areas purely because the average farm sizes are much larger than the rest of the country. Which equates to less farmers per sq km.
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Re: Investing in a farm in SA now.(non political discussion!!!)

Unread post by Marius Schrenk » Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:53 pm

Falafel wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:28 am
Mouser wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:51 am
It is a great lifestyle, provided you can minimise the stress of uncertainty. There is a lot of dairy farming in my area and when an acquaintance swapped this for a fruit farm I thought he'd made a great decision; then came the WC drought! Now comes Covid and export difficulties. Another friend who farms avos in NZ loves it; stable, organised and lucrative; it just rains too much :mrgreen: .

Bottom line could come under "location" but it is do your homework, again and again. Particularly if you don't know that much about the type of farming you are getting into. The security of ownership is massive for me as it cannot be rationalised or factored in on the (deliberately confusing) information out there from the ANC. Then comes personal security and crime risk.
So as far as I would guess... the best farm land to buy in SA would be:

1. Where there is a lack of informal settlements surrounding / close by
2. Land Claims are not existent
3. Frankly where no one wants to live (potential invader)

So... likely narrows it down somewhat... I get the feeling that most land claims are (not debating whether valid or not)... also based on where the land is. No one wants to live in the middle of the desert.... but that doesnt make for good farming land either...

So anyone care to name one of these "locations" where farming might be a good option in SA :?:

I think many people have a dream of owning a small farm and making a living from it... Not discounting the fact that its a #@$%#@% load of work but I guess it has something to do with mans desire to support, sustain and create for himself... all the while not encountering a taxi, carrying 30 pax, barrelling down a highway :!:
If you would buy in a "less murderous" area as defined,you would have to buy BIG or else you would not make it financially.There are irrigation areas in the said areas but then you are right back to square one in terms of people concentration and crime.It is also not as romantic as it sounds to live 160km away from the nearest town (of which most might be dirt road and the rest badly maintained) You need a very special partner to do that...and except your children would be in boarding school from 6 year old on....or worse....you would be homeschooling. :idea: 8-[
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Re: Investing in a farm in SA now.(non political discussion!!!)

Unread post by Fransw » Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:51 am

Marius Schrenk wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:53 pm
Falafel wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:28 am
Mouser wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:51 am
It is a great lifestyle, provided you can minimise the stress of uncertainty. There is a lot of dairy farming in my area and when an acquaintance swapped this for a fruit farm I thought he'd made a great decision; then came the WC drought! Now comes Covid and export difficulties. Another friend who farms avos in NZ loves it; stable, organised and lucrative; it just rains too much :mrgreen: .

Bottom line could come under "location" but it is do your homework, again and again. Particularly if you don't know that much about the type of farming you are getting into. The security of ownership is massive for me as it cannot be rationalised or factored in on the (deliberately confusing) information out there from the ANC. Then comes personal security and crime risk.
So as far as I would guess... the best farm land to buy in SA would be:

1. Where there is a lack of informal settlements surrounding / close by
2. Land Claims are not existent
3. Frankly where no one wants to live (potential invader)

So... likely narrows it down somewhat... I get the feeling that most land claims are (not debating whether valid or not)... also based on where the land is. No one wants to live in the middle of the desert.... but that doesnt make for good farming land either...

So anyone care to name one of these "locations" where farming might be a good option in SA :?:

I think many people have a dream of owning a small farm and making a living from it... Not discounting the fact that its a #@$%#@% load of work but I guess it has something to do with mans desire to support, sustain and create for himself... all the while not encountering a taxi, carrying 30 pax, barrelling down a highway :!:
If you would buy in a "less murderous" area as defined,you would have to buy BIG or else you would not make it financially.There are irrigation areas in the said areas but then you are right back to square one in terms of people concentration and crime.It is also not as romantic as it sounds to live 160km away from the nearest town (of which most might be dirt road and the rest badly maintained) You need a very special partner to do that...and except your children would be in boarding school from 6 year old on....or worse....you would be homeschooling. :idea: 8-[
Not a problem for the weekend/hobby "farmer" with a couple of animals and a Schrenk buffel or two..
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Re: Investing in a farm in SA now.(non political discussion!!!)

Unread post by Swartbok » Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:58 pm

I like the Waterberg a lot.

Vaalwater surroundings. I like the area between Naboomspruit and Vaalwater.
Not too far from town but far enough from settlements.

Cattle and game farming is good and some places have water and irrigation circles if you want to plant or put in some irrigation in small old field and plant some feed for the winter months etc.
Rainfall is OK and not dry therefore a higher animal carrying capacity, especially if you mix up a bit of grazers and browsers.
Beautiful bushveld.

In 2018 I think, I read the crime stats of my closest police station (Dorset) and only 2 contact crimes reported in the last 10 years IIRC.
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Re: Investing in a farm in SA now.(non political discussion!!!)

Unread post by C Africa » Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:36 am

Swartbok, while that is a great area, I am of the opinion that property prices are over inflated there. Prices run at R10 000 to 12 000 per ha.

Have a look at this, in the Kenhardt area:

https://homes.mitula.co.za/homes/kenhardt

Prices below R1000 per ha.


The difference in carrying capacity doesn't make up for that difference in price.


C

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