Exclusion of non vaccinated

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Re: Exclusion of non vaccinated

Unread post by Burner » Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:45 pm

HJK 414 wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 5:30 pm
GeraldNagel wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 5:24 pm
From the country naming beer xxxx. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Anyway he does make well thought out point.
Gerald,

4X (or Forex) is not a bad drop of beer .... :wink:

They also produce - Fosters beer .......
Which is an acronym for - sex on the beach ......


JK
Tooheys New isn't a bad mass produced beer out there either.

So I got my first jab in Italy last Friday. Still waiting for my green pass. The big thing that it allows is to sit down and eat indoors at a restaurant. Luckily the weather is absolutely awesome here, so far nicer anyways to eat outside. My local breweries tap room allows you to sit at the bar and have a pint at the counter without a green pass, which is in keeping with the rules here.
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Re: Exclusion of non vaccinated

Unread post by flysouth » Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:51 am

HJK 414 wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:22 am
Sensitive topic .......

Let me start by stating that in my view - everyone should feel the moral obligation to get a vaccination ......
There are lot of if's and but's - but there is - at this moment no other way out - and we have to live with it.
I know that you can still transmit - and I know you can still get sick......
And I also feel that if you do not want to get the vaccination - and get sick - the consequences - even financially, could be yours - all good by me...

Yet: I am slowly starting to get uncomfortable

We just received our Covid cards (sort of credit card you can stick in your wallet) which is valid throughout the EU.
With that I can fly - take a train - enter a restaurant - theatre etc etc etc ....
They just wish to see it and you are good to go.......



Covid Card.png


A non vaccinated person has to have a antigen or PCR test done for the same (only valid for 24 or 36 hrs.)
Yet - that is starting to change - slowly but surely ......

Our - suddenly very empowered politicians are starting to make sounds that are leaning towards :
Non-vaccinated can not travel anymore unless... and air travel without ......
They are suddenly starting to make sounds that restaurants are only open if you have ......
They are starting to make noise about public transport and ........

That - in my mind is simply a bridge too far.
If they wish to empower themselves to this extent and restrict personal freedoms and choices (even if those choices could carry personal consequences when you make that choice) then I would like to see the same politicians present me with a election that gives me the possibility to have my say.

I never signed up for this type of restriction in our society (even though it does not affect me personally).

I have very little sympathy for consciously non-vaccinated getting sick, own choice - own doing, you're on your own as far as I am concerned ..

But if they start to take away your civil rights in this way - I will stand on the barriers with you - that is simply not on.

JK


Final request - can the "conspiracy guy"s abstain from hijacking this thread please.
Go find some banned sites - have fun.
You as a vaccinated person with a card to prove it may be in the "I'm alright Jack" category right now - but you seem to have no clue as to what the state has in store for YOU going forward and what will be demanded - and with which you will try to comply - to remain in compliance and free to live your life.

Be patient. It is coming and will be revealed. Your civil rights have already been seriously violated through coercion to undergo a medical treatment or intervention depending on your own personal attitude towards this pandemic and the suggested remedy.
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Re: Exclusion of non vaccinated

Unread post by snoopy » Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:44 am

only 30.10% of the world is currently fully jabbed.

That means that the potential "card carrying" population that wants to exclude the 69.9% majority of the world, is very small. The tail is wagging the dog... does 30% of the world run the world economy? It would be fascinating to see how 30% can exclude 70% of the world and think they can turn the economy of the world around.

Regardless of what the perception is of what these cards will unlock for the 30.10%, or what those hoping to gain from these jabbed people may think. The card carriers (30%) are now going to escalate the spread of the virus variants again as they mingle and travel with their perceptions globally as their jabs wane within months.

I wonder if those who have natural defense against the virus, by contracting it and their own immune systems sorting it out - will also qualify for the card. I mean, seriously why not? :idea:

As time progresses we are going to find that these jabs were far from the holy grail, and it was never the only way to an effective immune response. Those who bought in are probably going to get jabbed for life now in cycles.
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Re: Exclusion of non vaccinated

Unread post by Cornell Blok » Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:42 pm

SNIPER wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:45 pm

Should someone maybe tell him that you can still spread the virus being vaccinated what a chop #-o
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Re: Exclusion of non vaccinated

Unread post by spatz » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:35 pm

flysouth wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:51 am
HJK 414 wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:22 am
Sensitive topic .......
....

...
You as a vaccinated person with a card to prove it may be in the "I'm alright Jack" category right now - but you seem to have no clue as to what the state has in store for YOU going forward and what will be demanded - and with which you will try to comply - to remain in compliance and free to live your life.

Be patient. It is coming and will be revealed. Your civil rights have already been seriously violated through coercion to undergo a medical treatment or intervention depending on your own personal attitude towards this pandemic and the suggested remedy.
Since i reported this for the drivel that it is, lets be clear you have a choice always , whether you choose to have a jab or not is a personal one, i DONT agree that anyone should be penalised for not having one if you can show that you have followed a different but as effective path (pcr tests etc), but i have to say i personally any getting gatvol with people dare i say it, suggesting i am incompetent of thinking for myself. Thread is about not excluding people and here we start seeing the conspiracy guys jumping in throwing their opinions around.
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Re: Exclusion of non vaccinated

Unread post by GRAHAMW » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:19 pm

Max du Preez Retweeted
Stig Abell
@StigAbell
·
4h
Statistic of the day: 87% of Danish people over 12 have been vaccinated. Also Denmark is set to declare that Covid is no longer a societal threat. The two are connected.
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Re: Exclusion of non vaccinated

Unread post by flysouth » Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:52 pm

spatz wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:35 pm
flysouth wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:51 am
HJK 414 wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:22 am
Sensitive topic .......
....

...
You as a vaccinated person with a card to prove it may be in the "I'm alright Jack" category right now - but you seem to have no clue as to what the state has in store for YOU going forward and what will be demanded - and with which you will try to comply - to remain in compliance and free to live your life.

Be patient. It is coming and will be revealed. Your civil rights have already been seriously violated through coercion to undergo a medical treatment or intervention depending on your own personal attitude towards this pandemic and the suggested remedy.
Since i reported this for the drivel that it is, lets be clear you have a choice always , whether you choose to have a jab or not is a personal one, i DONT agree that anyone should be penalised for not having one if you can show that you have followed a different but as effective path (pcr tests etc), but i have to say i personally any getting gatvol with people dare i say it, suggesting i am incompetent of thinking for myself. Thread is about not excluding people and here we start seeing the conspiracy guys jumping in throwing their opinions around.
The restrictions and ongoing demands of compliance to any new schemes thought up by politicians will never end unless WE cause them to end. We can only achieve that by resistance against the coercions applied by authorities and by other institutions who are apparently happy to breach people's civil rights, even those laid down in the SA Constitution.
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Re: Exclusion of non vaccinated

Unread post by Whirly » Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:27 pm

If those vaccinated (and I am), can still spread the virus ( never mind contracting Covid, land in hospital or even die), why should they be allowed to travel and those not vaccinated, not? Makes no sense. :roll:

Whirly.
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Re: Exclusion of non vaccinated

Unread post by Sunbird » Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:07 pm

I wonder if those who have natural defense against the virus, by contracting it and their own immune systems sorting it out - will also qualify for the card. I mean, seriously why not?
I agree. If one have a positive PCR test with its date, it should carry the same weight as prove of vaccination. I am sure time would tell whether one need a booster later on, as everyone else.
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Re: Exclusion of non vaccinated

Unread post by Antman » Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:02 am

Please can someone explain the following to me. If you're vaccinated or un-vaccinated you can still get and transmit CV19. What then is the purpose of a "Vax Passport"? Then some people say if you're tested you're okay to enter wherever requires the "Vax Passport, but if you're vaccinated and have the "Vax Passport" you don't need to be tested but are still able to catch and transmit CV19???

The other thing is these vaccine's are or have been till very recently been in clinical trails and been given under an Emergency Use Authorization. When a drug, vaccine in this case is in clinical trails a portion of the recipients receive a placebo, how many people have unknowingly received the placebo.
The authorities will know as batch numbers will be assigned to your ID number and if someone has a reaction, they will be able to trace if a placebo was given or not as your ID number would be given at the hospital.

If the above is true, then there are a bunch of people who think they are vaccinated but are not and will receive the "Vax passport".

Call me a conspiracy theorist if you like but I get the feeling that these 'Vax passports" are the first step to something very very bad.

Research China and personal "Social Credit Score". Use Duckduckgo.com not Google.
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Re: Exclusion of non vaccinated

Unread post by coline » Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:37 am

The vax is all about reducing the R value so everyone can get back to normality. It is not about the individual and to take that approach is just plain selfish. Of course there may be individual valid reasons why the vax may not be acceptable for certain individuals and allowance can be made for that, but by far the benefits for society as a whole, the economy and indeed everyone's health makes the vax a no brainer.
Don't be a dwax, get the vax.

Thank you
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Re: Exclusion of non vaccinated

Unread post by SNIPER » Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:39 am

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Re: Exclusion of non vaccinated

Unread post by heisan » Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:49 am

Antman wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:02 am
Please can someone explain the following to me. If you're vaccinated or un-vaccinated you can still get and transmit CV19. What then is the purpose of a "Vax Passport"? Then some people say if you're tested you're okay to enter wherever requires the "Vax Passport, but if you're vaccinated and have the "Vax Passport" you don't need to be tested but are still able to catch and transmit CV19???
It is all about managing risks. On current stats, vaccinated people are about 5x less likely to catch a contagious case of COVID than unvaccinated people. That is more-or-less the same probability as a false negative in a rapid antigen test often used for entry to venues. So they are about equally effective at reducing the risk of spreading infections.
The other thing is these vaccine's are or have been till very recently been in clinical trails and been given under an Emergency Use Authorization. When a drug, vaccine in this case is in clinical trails a portion of the recipients receive a placebo, how many people have unknowingly received the placebo.
The authorities will know as batch numbers will be assigned to your ID number and if someone has a reaction, they will be able to trace if a placebo was given or not as your ID number would be given at the hospital.
Only people that signed up for clinical trials received placebos. At the end of the trial period, all participants who received placebos were notified, and given the option to receive the vaccine.

No placebos were administered under the EUAs (it would in fact be a criminal offense to distribute a placebo under an EUA).
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Re: Exclusion of non vaccinated

Unread post by heisan » Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:58 am

SNIPER wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:39 am
And what exactly do those numbers mean?

Lets look at vaccine stats:
https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... ccinations

And death rates:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... -virginia/

So, vaccines are fairly constant at ~45% of the population, but death rate has gone up around 400% over the past 8 weeks. So according to this video, 43% of the population contributes 25% to the increase in deaths, and 57% contributes the remaining 375%. I would say that is still fairly good vaccine effectiveness?
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Re: Exclusion of non vaccinated

Unread post by heisan » Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:13 am

Aurelius73 wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:06 am
I have 2 comments on this:

1) He says 'this is happening now', but can you point to one COVID variant that developed after large scale vaccine rollout, and in an area where vaccines were used? All current variants of interest developed in areas with significant vaccination, or before vaccination programs started.

2) If we know so much more about treating the disease, why are hospitals so full that people are dying waiting for care?
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