Emigration options

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Jack Welles
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Re: Emigration options

Unread post by Jack Welles » Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:23 pm

paulw wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:30 pm
Just another SA family going to Philippines (on their way or maybe already there). Lots of opportunities there.
Now that's a great place to retire to. English is a major language. Christmas is from September to January!!!! 220 v. electricity. Warm weather, beautiful beaches, and low cost of living. Average R30 for a meal in a restuarant. Beer at R14. 3 bedroom condo on the beach for R2 250 per month.

However, if you're leaving SA (to go there) because you don't want power outages, water shortages, crumbling roads and bridges, crime, corruption, drug gang violence and murderous cops, you might be in for a rude shock :wink:

Oh yes, once there don't go out at night to draw cash :lol:
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Re: Emigration options

Unread post by paulw » Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:59 pm

V5 - LEO wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:18 am
HJK 414 wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:03 am

If push comes to shove we will find Marius a nice farm here in Spain and get him to raise some bull fighting "equipment" ……
They could probably do with his level of knowledge over here ……. :smt045

JK
.....I am a good quality bull, ready for fighting Christina :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
Reminds me, an old colleague (called Christina) of my wife just emigrated to Portugal this year. She loves it there.
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Re: Emigration options

Unread post by paulw » Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:02 pm

Jack Welles wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:23 pm
paulw wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:30 pm
Just another SA family going to Philippines (on their way or maybe already there). Lots of opportunities there.
Now that's a great place to retire to. English is a major language. Christmas is from September to January!!!! 220 v. electricity. Warm weather, beautiful beaches, and low cost of living. Average R30 for a meal in a restuarant. Beer at R14. 3 bedroom condo on the beach for R2 250 per month.

However, if you're leaving SA (to go there) because you don't want power outages, water shortages, crumbling roads and bridges, crime, corruption, drug gang violence and murderous cops, you might be in for a rude shock :wink:

Oh yes, once there don't go out at night to draw cash :lol:
True depending on the area. I've done my homework on Philippines as well and found that the crime is really mostly in the cities.
In fact I still made a note stating that people also get killed there gangster gun downed in the street style.
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Re: Emigration options

Unread post by V5 - LEO » Sun Dec 15, 2019 8:37 pm

paulw wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:59 pm
V5 - LEO wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:18 am
HJK 414 wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:03 am

If push comes to shove we will find Marius a nice farm here in Spain and get him to raise some bull fighting "equipment" ……
They could probably do with his level of knowledge over here ……. :smt045

JK
.....I am a good quality bull, ready for fighting Christina :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
Reminds me, an old colleague (called Christina) of my wife just emigrated to Portugal this year. She loves it there.
.... :D :D
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Marius Schrenk
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Re: Emigration options

Unread post by Marius Schrenk » Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:19 am

HJK 414 wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:03 am
rare bird wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:21 pm

Whirly is already converted. It may be Marius you need to send that to?

:lol: :lol: .......

If push comes to shove we will find Marius a nice farm here in Spain and get him to raise some bull fighting "equipment" ……
They could probably do with his level of knowledge over here ……. :smt045


JK
:lol: :lol: Many...many moons ago when the only way to travel with a RSA green mamba passport was to join the commercial fleet,two Freestate farm boykies joint to see the world. Then one day in Spain they found themselves running down a street with lots of other people. People started thinning out and in the end they where in a arena with a medium size(in terms of the Freestate animals they were accustomed too)bull with attitude towards them.....as no one else was available anymore. So the two looked at each other and "made a plan" in true Freestate fashion.One guy got a hold of the bulls tail and pulled it "off balance" just then the other grabbed its horns and twisted (did I mention the were fairly stout and healthy farm boys) the 350 kg medium size bull off his feed.At the same time they both jumped onto its neck and kept pinned down to "calm" it until the situation would change or "someone" could claim their(calmed down) bull. The crowd loved them. The event organisers not so much. It earned them a few nights in the slammer, for denigrating the matadors. :roll: Moral of the story is I can blow new life into the blood sports in Spain if only they would let me.....might also be the end of it. #-o :twisted:Even Christina would have her pants in tatters. :wink:
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Re: Emigration options

Unread post by paulw » Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:25 pm

For those emigrating to Ireland, Spain or other popular destinations in the EU, there is a thread on converting Crew SA License to EASA licenses.
(For those not aware.)

This thread was started by Cobus in 2018.

https://avcom.co.za/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=212889
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Re: Emigration options

Unread post by Induna » Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:45 pm

I would like to explore the option for Ireland a bit. Anyone has some info on

1. Cost of living
2. Typical salaries for industrial Engineers (i.e. Oil&Gas, Mining, Steel Manufacturing)
3. Tax
4. Property rental and purchase prices for a normal house
5. Job opportunities
6. Visa requirements i.e. is sponsorship required or how does it work?
7. Buying and maintaining a vehicle of two or motorcycle
8. Flying and owning gyrocopters and built experimental aircraft
9. Gun laws for seasonal hunting

It looks to me that a lot of saffers are going to Ireland. My guess would be that they integrate easier there? What is the carrot that draws people there?

I have no idea what type of industries are available in Ireland. Also, i am not a city person so living outside of major centres or better on a small ranch or something will be first price.

Thanks
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Re: Emigration options

Unread post by Jack Welles » Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:08 pm

Induna wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:45 pm
It looks to me that a lot of saffers are going to Ireland. My guess would be that they integrate easier there? What is the carrot that draws people there? Thanks
I was told that it's easier to get into there than the UK, so people who can't get into the UK use that as an alternate English-speaking option.

Presumably the situation is now even more fluid because of the UK leaving the EU and with the UK getting even more strict about immigration and probably going on to an Aus-style points-based system for foreigners.
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Re: Emigration options

Unread post by paulw » Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:57 pm

Induna wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:45 pm
I would like to explore the option for Ireland a bit. Anyone has some info on

1. Cost of living
2. Typical salaries for industrial Engineers (i.e. Oil&Gas, Mining, Steel Manufacturing)
3. Tax
4. Property rental and purchase prices for a normal house
5. Job opportunities
6. Visa requirements i.e. is sponsorship required or how does it work?
7. Buying and maintaining a vehicle of two or motorcycle
8. Flying and owning gyrocopters and built experimental aircraft
9. Gun laws for seasonal hunting

It looks to me that a lot of saffers are going to Ireland. My guess would be that they integrate easier there? What is the carrot that draws people there?

I have no idea what type of industries are available in Ireland. Also, i am not a city person so living outside of major centres or better on a small ranch or something will be first price.

Thanks
"vanjast" can surely also contribute, but here some answers

1. Cost of living
PW> Higher than SA, but salaries are also higher. In general for similar job, similar standard of living (costs)
Food: Some cheaper, some more expensive.
Cars: Secondhand cheaper, new I think the same
Housing: More expensive to rent and buy
White goods like fridges etc: I think cheapest is cheaper and the more expensive brand name is more expensive
PC's etc about the same
TV contracts similar to DSTV similar prices and maybe cheaper.
Cellphones cheaper
Uncapped Wireless 50mbps in country E55 I don't have Fibre in my area but there is in cities and some country side areas)
Cellphone prepaid E20 per month for 20 euro worth of calls and uncapped data

2. Typical salaries for industrial Engineers (i.e. Oil&Gas, Mining, Steel Manufacturing)

PW>Not sure, best to check sites like Glassdoor.ie, Indeed.ie, etc I would say approx E60k+ and up per annum

3. Tax
PW>Hefty:
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/m ... lated.html


4. Property rental and purchase prices for a normal house
PW> Check daft.ie but rental from E700 up for three bedroom which will then mostly be semi-detached or terrace houses. Free standing E1200 upwards depending on area.
In the country cheaper than in the towns and cities but need own transport then. Public transport is good but scarse in the country side.
Not bicycle friendly country like the Netherlands or Belgium. You do find cyclists going to work, etc.
See daft for buying. You need 20% if you owned before and loan will be 3,5 x annual salary. If on contract can only buy after 12 months and maybe even 24 months.
Interest around 3% depending on bank

5. Job opportunities
PW>Plenty.

6. Visa requirements i.e. is sponsorship required or how does it work?
PW>There are two lists. One shows who will not get a work permit but sometime you need to check as there are exceptions. I.E. a normal chef won't get in but a Chef de Party will providing 5 years experience.
Drivers won't get in but a truck driver code 14 can.
Need to check exceptions.
Also check if you can twist a job description and name.

Then there is a Critical Skills list. If you are on it an a degree and earn more than E32000 per annum or there abouts, you can get a work permit.
If you do not have a degree, but earn more than E62k per annum, then you can get a work permit. Contract must be 24 months or more or permanent position.
Your family can come with immediately

If you do not fit the criteria for Critical skills and also not on the inelligible list, then you can get a General work permit
Must also earn above I think E32k BUT family (wife, etc) can only come after 12 months that you landed.
https://dbei.gov.ie/en/What-We-Do/Workp ... t-updates/
https://dbei.gov.ie/en/What-We-Do/Workp ... mployment/
https://dbei.gov.ie/en/What-We-Do/Workp ... nt-Permit/

7. Buying and maintaining a vehicle of two or motorcycle
PW>Easy peasy

8. Flying and owning gyrocopters and built experimental aircraft
PW> Can be done. Don't know about Gyros.
But there are microlights, Savana's, Cessna, Robin's, etc
http://www.galwayflyingclub.org/web-lin ... ining.html


9. Gun laws for seasonal hunting
PW> very strict. Similar to SA. Need training, safe to keep firearms, etc.
Only possible after 6 months in Ireland.


It looks to me that a lot of saffers are going to Ireland. My guess would be that they integrate easier there? What is the carrot that draws people there?
PW> Plenty of jobs. There is approximate 1 family per day coming to Ireland.
Easy to integrate. No points system, no medical tests like Aus etc to be allowed in (or risk to get kicked out if you get some health issue) If doors in Aus and NZ are closed, then Ireland may still be open. (But also the other way round depending on skills)
Very low crime, people drive properly, relaxed slow paced.
Only weather can be a drawback.
General Aviation is a lot less than SA but there are clubs and schools.


I have no idea what type of industries are available in Ireland.
PW> Some farming, mostly IT (Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Amazon are all here) and pharmaceutical (Boston Scientific, Meditronic, etc)
Other industries too.

Also, i am not a city person so living outside of major centres or better on a small ranch or something will be first price.
PW>You will feel at home. Cities are small. Galway city is around 80k people. Lots of people like myself living in the country. Like living on a plot but not a plot. In my case three sides farmland with farmers sheep and one neighbour one side.

As "Jack Welles" is saying, easier to get into than UK which is a mission.
(However, something very few people know about UK. Everyone think that you need to show 6 months worth of salary slips worked in the UK, but that is not entirely true. You can also use SA salaryslips to proof income as long as it meets the UK equivalent in pounds).
Thats for spousal visa's, etc)


You can join a Facebook group here:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/924934454287920/
First read the files in the Files section, search and read posts and then ask questions.
There is a Telegram Channel where info gets posted on a daily basis. Send me your number if you are on Telegram then I can see if can get you on it.
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Re: Emigration options

Unread post by excolonial » Mon Dec 16, 2019 5:05 pm

Induna wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:45 pm
I would like to explore the option for Ireland a bit. Anyone has some info on
If you are an engineer you should perhaps consider Switzerland. they don't care what passport you have if they want to hire you. Getting PR/Citizenship is not certain, but worth considering from a quality of life perspective. Learning german will be easy if you praat die taal.
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Re: Emigration options

Unread post by Induna » Mon Dec 16, 2019 7:00 pm

@paulw thank you for the detailed reply. It looks like something i will explore.

I have been an expat for many years but his time emigrating seems the way forward for me and my family. (For the sake of my baby boy)

Work wise I am an experienced Electrical and Instrumentation Engineer and have been working in the above-mentioned industries.

@excolonial do you have any contact person in Switzerland to who i can get more info? (Ek praat die taal goed :lol: )
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Re: Emigration options

Unread post by paulw » Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:29 pm

Induna wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 7:00 pm
@paulw thank you for the detailed reply. It looks like something i will explore.

I have been an expat for many years but his time emigrating seems the way forward for me and my family. (For the sake of my baby boy)

Work wise I am an experienced Electrical and Instrumentation Engineer and have been working in the above-mentioned industries.
Will be a good choice.

I regularly see positions advertised for this line of work especially in the pharmaceutical industry.
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Re: Emigration options

Unread post by vanjast » Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:15 pm

"vanjast" can surely also contribute, but here some answers

Cost of living
Overall a lot cheaper, Look around before you buy.
We did the same in SA - chase the discount prices.

Cars: Bought a 2nd hand diesel 'tank' for 'same price' as I sold my old SA car. Does amazing mileage, 11+ miles per litre at 1900cc's
Car/Road License fees are a lot more expensive, as is the compulsory insurance.
Everything is on the Garda (Police) computer - don't drive pass a Garda car if you're short on one item. They have linked Licence ID cameras in every car.

Housing: The closer to Town, Transport routes it does get more expensive. We're renting at the mo at comparable SA prices.
The pricing structure is crazy here, a few km's in the other direction you can get the same house for 1/2 the price.
Choose you area carefully though, and check up on development plans, don't be in a rush to buy. Don't be in a rush to buy anything here, you will be taken for a ride - treat it like a Indian Market in Durban ;)

Uncapped Wireless 100MBs (be lucky to get that though) at 25euro, dsl lines

Tax
Not that bad actually, and plenty rebates to claim on.

Jobs:
Looks like there are plenty in the engineering sectors.
I get bothered weekly from old job websites that I registered on a while back. I don't think it's AI driven as it seems to come from the people themselves. I'm not changing jobs as I've found a good one.

With Brexit happening, a lot of EU business will swing Ireland's way (certainly for the company I'm in), but I'm sure there will be a boost of sorts in Ireland.

When moving here, if you don't have an EU or Irish passport, you're screwed, and most likely will not be employed 'legally'.
When you start working here, you will have to apply for a PPS number (similar to SA ID card), as without this number you're taxed as a non-resident/temporary employee at 50%. You can claim the difference back (in cash) once you get the PPS card.

So have a backup stash, that will see you through at least 6 months, and a lot more while you wait for your SA money to arrive.

Bring as many original SA docs/qualifications/references (and certified copies) with you (Police Clearance, Car Insurance no claims, Utility bills... the whole lot).
Oh yes.. make sure your SA driver's license has at least 2 years still on it for renewal, otherwise you'll have to redo the driver's thing from scratch (learners, drivers..), instead of a straight license swop.

Those links Paulw has put up are good references, also look at the Irish Gov websites...everything (almost) is online here. Most stuff you just sit behind a PC and do it... no queues.
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Re: Emigration options

Unread post by HJK 414 » Tue Dec 17, 2019 9:58 am

Induna wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 7:00 pm
………...
@excolonial do you have any contact person in Switzerland to who i can get more info? (Ek praat die taal goed :lol: )

Jacques,

Exco is correct - there is a skills shortage in Switzerland - and you could apply there...….. getting a permanent residence there is another matter....
They are really tough.

There is a skills shortage in Germany as well - and you can get a "aufenthaltserlaubnis" (permission to stay) from the government if you find a job in the "skills shortage field" …… If you keep that job for 5 years (or a similar one if you change employer seamlessly), do not have a run in with the Police (court offence) - and pay all your taxes - you will end up with a permanent residence for the EU in 5 years.

No real queuing - find an employer that wants to employ you - (you need a contract) and the Labour bureau and local council will do the rest...…
The "aufenthaltserlaubnis" will then be extended within a matter of weeks ……and immediate family can come along

Holland (the Netherlands) is the same - albeit that the threshold is somewhat higher, the advantage is that the employer applies to the IND for the work permit for a "foreign worker" / and if it is a large corporation or company - it is seldom refused.
Try on the sites of KLM / Shell / Stork / Philips / NOS or Unilever ?? (they are all screaming for qualified staff ….)
The advantage is the language (you can speak Afrikaans / which is close enough to Dutch).

JK
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Re: Emigration options

Unread post by Falafel » Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:12 pm

HJK 414 wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 9:58 am
Induna wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 7:00 pm
………...
@excolonial do you have any contact person in Switzerland to who i can get more info? (Ek praat die taal goed :lol: )

Jacques,

Exco is correct - there is a skills shortage in Switzerland - and you could apply there...….. getting a permanent residence there is another matter....
They are really tough.

There is a skills shortage in Germany as well - and you can get a "aufenthaltserlaubnis" (permission to stay) from the government if you find a job in the "skills shortage field" …… If you keep that job for 5 years (or a similar one if you change employer seamlessly), do not have a run in with the Police (court offence) - and pay all your taxes - you will end up with a permanent residence for the EU in 5 years.

No real queuing - find an employer that wants to employ you - (you need a contract) and the Labour bureau and local council will do the rest...…
The "aufenthaltserlaubnis" will then be extended within a matter of weeks ……and immediate family can come along

Holland (the Netherlands) is the same - albeit that the threshold is somewhat higher, the advantage is that the employer applies to the IND for the work permit for a "foreign worker" / and if it is a large corporation or company - it is seldom refused.
Try on the sites of KLM / Shell / Stork / Philips / NOS or Unilever ?? (they are all screaming for qualified staff ….)
The advantage is the language (you can speak Afrikaans / which is close enough to Dutch).

JK
Hmmm Switzerland.... rather go with Ireland... especially if you have young kids IMHO... some of the issues:

1. Swiss German - there is a lack of English in Switzerland in schools and they are finding themselves being left behind - even the Chinese have embraced English better and Swiss English skills arent great... and before you say we talk it at home, being educated in it and conversational English are different... and the word "moer" isnt actually accepted in international business many of us will be surprised to know :lol:
2. Streaming of kids - while technical trade is fine and good in some instances the choice is not yours but the Canton / School, many Swiss are themselves being marginalised in the top tier job market with the Germans and others taking the premium jobs... part of this issue is the English too
3. If you lose the one job you have/had then you need to find another one or get out... not ideal considering you may have made a life there and you will have a Swiss kid, talking a guttural language trying to fit into another school in an English country
4. Its expensive and while companies are paying schools local is better.... IF you can stay there indefinitely as they will integrate but you cannot necessarily stay there indefinitely

There are some major positives of course, education is good, healthcare, safety (honestly basically the same as the EU), etc etc.... but its the soft issues above where I have seen people want to get out after the honeymoon period is over 2/3 years and especially once the kids get to around 10/11 years old...

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