ZS - PME Accident Wattville - 3 Deceased RIP

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Gonzo
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Re: ZS - PME Accident Wattville - 3 Deceased RIP

Unread post by Gonzo » Fri May 25, 2018 12:56 pm

In my opinion a report of very low quality, not only many formal errors and very bad quality of figure 12 (why is someone publishing something like this?) but also content-wise:

- based on the report, there were no technical factors. Except for two pictures showing the ignition key and the throttle quadrant there are no hints of any technical inspection carried out. If you don't search you will not find - sounds at least logical.
- chapter 1.6.2 W&B: "the Weight and Balance of the aircraft at the time of the accident was 240 pounds. Below the Maximum Take-off weight of the aircraft". Wtf is this supposed to say? Weight and balance were both 240lbs? Or they totalled to 240lbs below MTOW? Looks like the author wants to say the actual weight was 240lbs below MTOW. And he did not care to calculate the balance - or maybe simply did not know how to do so?
- 3.1.9: "the density altitude was 7863ft which was higher as per the PA-32-300 Cherokee Six take-off performance chart for the aircraft.". I can only assume that the author tries to point out that performance for DAs above 7kft is not shown on the chart. However, if one dares to extrapolate a bit, he'd get something slightly above 4kft takeoff run over 50ft. Brekkies has what? 5800ft overall? And there was some headwind. And they were a bit below MTOW. That does not look like a mission impossible or does it?

This is probably the most useless report I have ever seen, they didn't even try to figure out what went wrong.

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Re: ZS - PME Accident Wattville - 3 Deceased RIP

Unread post by richard C » Fri May 25, 2018 1:03 pm

Nah - Piet Kriel's still gets me. "They crashed because they failed to avoid the ground". No sh?t !!!!
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Re: ZS - PME Accident Wattville - 3 Deceased RIP

Unread post by heisan » Fri May 25, 2018 1:27 pm

As has become common, this report smells just a little fishy.

The aircraft has a service ceiling of 16,000' - which means that at a density altitude of 16,000' at MAUW, it should still be able to climb at 300fpm (or was it 200fpm, can't remember).

A lightly loaded aircraft, at a relatively low (for a highveld summer) density altitude should have had no issues taking off from a 1400m runway. If the accident 'investigator' had asked anybody with experience on type, I am sure that they would have been told that DA should not have been an issue. Perhaps the tailwind, or even pilot his-handling should have been considered in this case?
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Re: ZS - PME Accident Wattville - 3 Deceased RIP

Unread post by TC » Fri May 25, 2018 1:38 pm

My first ever comment on an accident report... and I call BULL!

A Cherokee 6, 3 up, flown by a pilot with over 4000 hours being caught out by DA?!??

The only thing that I see slightly concerning is an apparent full rich mixture - but that may be because the lever moved. If this was indeed the case that would cause a reduction in power
My wife keeps saying I don't listen to her or something like that !?
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Re: ZS - PME Accident Wattville - 3 Deceased RIP

Unread post by jimdavis » Fri May 25, 2018 1:39 pm

Folks you are all singing my hymn - these accident reports are a disgraceful wast of taxpayers' money. Reading them only makes one angry.

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Re: ZS - PME Accident Wattville - 3 Deceased RIP

Unread post by Volo » Fri May 25, 2018 2:09 pm

The CAA reports repeatedly make judgement calls in their reports without any supporting evidence . We all know that there could be a dozen other reasons from configuration through to power issues . Why do they feel compelled to pin something on to the cause if they do not know what led to the accident.
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Re: ZS - PME Accident Wattville - 3 Deceased RIP

Unread post by BONNIE MAD » Fri May 25, 2018 2:19 pm

I somehow think we will be seeing less and less of the conservatives war cry of " Please guys, let's not speculate, and wait for the accident report and investiagtion to shed the light on the facts" :D
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Re: ZS - PME Accident Wattville - 3 Deceased RIP

Unread post by richard C » Fri May 25, 2018 2:27 pm

I would like to know how many hours the pilot had on that particular aircraft, and how many times he had taken it out of Brakpan.

Maybe he suddenly forgot how to fly the thing ?
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Re: ZS - PME Accident Wattville - 3 Deceased RIP

Unread post by Mrb13676 » Fri May 25, 2018 2:39 pm

Good grief. How much would it cost to simply have someone proofread the report before publishing it?
And of course the usual subtext in SA - “1.5.1 - the pilot’s flight bag with his logbook was removed by some of the local community and unrecoverable.”

And 3.1.9 - what even does this sentence mean?
*shakes head sadly*
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Re: ZS - PME Accident Wattville - 3 Deceased RIP

Unread post by MGR » Fri May 25, 2018 3:40 pm

Well... This will keep on happening unless the actual industry (i.e. us as pilots, AMO's, etc.etc.) holds the CAA accountable. The collective will have to take a stance and say "No More in my name". So, industry bodies need to take charge and we should stop fighting amongst each other and unite behind a common goal (or common enemy?). ](*,)
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Re: ZS - PME Accident Wattville - 3 Deceased RIP

Unread post by michael_v » Fri May 25, 2018 3:46 pm

TC wrote:My first ever comment on an accident report... and I call BULL!

A Cherokee 6, 3 up, flown by a pilot with over 4000 hours being caught out by DA?!??

The only thing that I see slightly concerning is an apparent full rich mixture - but that may be because the lever moved. If this was indeed the case that would cause a reduction in power
If that was the mixture setting it could have suffered a rich cut, a while ago there was a cherokee six out of a airstrip close to Polokwane that suffered rich cut and engine quit just after take off, fortunately the pilot managed to land it on a road and all walked away.
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Re: ZS - PME Accident Wattville - 3 Deceased RIP

Unread post by jimdavis » Fri May 25, 2018 7:46 pm

michael_v wrote:[If that was the mixture setting it could have suffered a rich cut, a while ago there was a cherokee six out of a airstrip close to Polokwane that suffered rich cut and engine quit just after take off, fortunately the pilot managed to land it on a road and all walked away.
I find that very inteesting Michael. Obviouly a rich cut is caused by the mixture being too rich, although I have neve experienced one in an aircraft, car or bike. But what would cause the mixture to suddenly become even richer to the extent the engines cuts out after it has been delivering close to full power on takeoff?

Anyone, any comments on this?

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Re: ZS - PME Accident Wattville - 3 Deceased RIP

Unread post by Peregrine » Fri May 25, 2018 7:51 pm

Yet another pathetic report. Who writes these reports? Who is the incompetent official who releases the embarrassment for publication?
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Re: ZS - PME Accident Wattville - 3 Deceased RIP

Unread post by cage » Fri May 25, 2018 7:54 pm

Peregrine wrote:Yet another pathetic report. Who writes these reports? Who is the incompetent official who releases the embarrassment for publication?
The head of department. Icao don't care about quality, they care about process. Process followed..
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Re: ZS - PME Accident Wattville - 3 Deceased RIP

Unread post by Wildcat_004 » Sat May 26, 2018 1:45 am

Now we are talking. Hitting the nail on the head. All the boxes are now ticked, the “i” and “t” s are all dotted and crossed so ICAO will pass this report...forget about the rest.

Pathetic to say the least.

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