Twin down in Glen Austin Midrand

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HJK 414
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Re: Twin down in Glen Austin Midrand

Unread post by HJK 414 » Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:58 pm

tanglefoot wrote:.........4 people died (2 pilots, 1 crew and 1 pax ) but only three people on board. I'm going to bed now. How thick do you need to be to get a job at CAA?
Tangles ...... You would assume that some section chief or department head reviews these reports before signing them off - and releasing them to a public environment ......... #-o
If this is the result - then exactly how competent are the guy's working for these department heads.

One wonders whether they can distinguish between Turbo charged aircraft / Pressurized aircraft / and perhaps by some miracle could deduce that 3 POB can not result in 4 perished .....

How did the SACAA sink this far ??
Absolutely disgraceful....... [-(

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Re: Twin down in Glen Austin Midrand

Unread post by heisan » Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:09 pm

Orthin Opter wrote:
GL wrote:...
Why is the bottom pages of the report dated Nov 2015 = 18 months before the accident?
EISH #-o #-o #-o
That is one of the few parts that is not a mistake. That is the form version date (you will see it on the bottom of (almost) every CAA form. It has nothing to do with the date the report was written, or the date of the accident.

Details of the form aside, the actual content is indeed quite shocking, even for a preliminary report.
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Re: Twin down in Glen Austin Midrand

Unread post by Backmarker » Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:18 pm

The length of this report and the apparent attempted thoroughness is at least a sign of wanting to improve the quality of the reporting. This effort sadly
,has been overshadowed by blatant errors, nonsensical grammar, and arbitrary details.
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Re: Twin down in Glen Austin Midrand

Unread post by paulw » Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:11 pm

heisan wrote:
Orthin Opter wrote:
GL wrote:...
Why is the bottom pages of the report dated Nov 2015 = 18 months before the accident?
EISH #-o #-o #-o
That is one of the few parts that is not a mistake. That is the form version date (you will see it on the bottom of (almost) every CAA form. It has nothing to do with the date the report was written, or the date of the accident.

Details of the form aside, the actual content is indeed quite shocking, even for a preliminary report.
It is very easy to make that mistake in thinking it is the report date. Also took me a while to realise what it is.
They should make it a small font in a corner or something and state it is version date.
.
Don't believe what I post, research what I post....
They have a book on how to take my money away? When did this happen......
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Re: Twin down in Glen Austin Midrand

Unread post by goga » Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:39 pm

And then we are forced to wear cheap nylon dayglo vests around aircraft #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o
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Re: Twin down in Glen Austin Midrand

Unread post by V5 - LEO » Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:30 pm

paulw wrote:
heisan wrote:
Orthin Opter wrote: EISH #-o #-o #-o
That is one of the few parts that is not a mistake. That is the form version date (you will see it on the bottom of (almost) every CAA form. It has nothing to do with the date the report was written, or the date of the accident.

Details of the form aside, the actual content is indeed quite shocking, even for a preliminary report.
It is very easy to make that mistake in thinking it is the report date. Also took me a while to realise what it is.
They should make it a small font in a corner or something and state it is version date.

....that is the date of the current template in use - and yes that is why there is repeat reporting and silly mistakes and info not relevant to the current report as it is only copy and paste and spoeg en plak by the writer of the report - skande

.....accident reporting is suppose to be done by the investigator, but maybe they are so few or so busy or so important that it is handed to an aspirant desk jockey to fnuck up the incoherent babble of the investigation completely.

...sorry rant off - SACAA just has me knickers in a twist with regard to issuing foreign license - looks like it may be sorted now.
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Re: Twin down in Glen Austin Midrand

Unread post by rare bird » Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:51 am

can anyone help me with the safety recommendations? (from a practical perspective - I see that the recommendations are directed at CAA banning/prohibiting more things, but for me, what can I do? )
I am quite happy to hear any other recommendations (we have had a few already, e.g. wear fire retardant clothing)
the report recommendations were:
"SAFETY RECOMMENDATIONS:
4.1 It is strongly recommended that the South African Civil aviation authority through the relevant department amend the Civil Aviation Regulations to ensure that provision of the Aeronautical information publication prohibits certain maneuverers and procedures at night time, this prohibition must have legal force which will be reflected in relevant Civil Aviation regulations.
4.2 It is strongly recommended that the South African Civil aviation authority through relevant department review the applicable regulations and definitions to ensure that only operating crew are carried on the aircraft when it is engaged in the practise of emergency procedures.
4.3 The Civil Aviation authority to take appropriate steps to inform and educate the industry on the hazards involved in asymmetric training operation in conditions of low visibility and at night."
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Re: Twin down in Glen Austin Midrand

Unread post by Flyman » Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:34 pm

This whole incident is very close to home. I personally knew the deceased instructor.
The report is a disgrace.
PRECHECK'S !!!!!!
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Re: Twin down in Glen Austin Midrand

Unread post by SandPiper » Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:29 pm

Flyman wrote:This whole incident is very close to home. I personally knew the deceased instructor.
The report is a disgrace.
Why?

My 2c worth:

With the limited info/evidence left after the accident, the conclusion and recomendations are spot on.
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Re: Twin down in Glen Austin Midrand

Unread post by Flyman » Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:03 am

Read the report then analyse and talk
PRECHECK'S !!!!!!
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Re: Twin down in Glen Austin Midrand

Unread post by SandPiper » Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:56 am

Flyman wrote:Read the report then analyse and talk
Agh shame, as if I did not read it, Moderators Message:
no need for that
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Re: Twin down in Glen Austin Midrand

Unread post by Christopher » Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:41 am

If this point was mentioned in the prelim. report, then I missed it; certainly no one has asked this question or raised this point in nineteen pages: did -HEO have dual controls or that more-usual, Beechcraft swing-over affair? Those swing-over controls would <not> be conducive, I think, to an instructor taking control in a hurry...

Just a thought, that.
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Re: Twin down in Glen Austin Midrand

Unread post by Sea Rescue » Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:08 am

Hi Christopher,
Your reference to the type of control yoke/s used, is a valid question. However, to my knowledge the "throw-over" stick has never been approved for dual training and as flight schools generally prefer to operate within the framework of the law, if for no other reason than to validate their insurance, I imagine that HEO would have been fitted with a dual stick.

If in any doubt, I am sure a call to the school would confirm your question ?
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Re: Twin down in Glen Austin Midrand

Unread post by Hunter » Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:05 am

Christopher wrote:If this point was mentioned in the prelim. report, then I missed it; certainly no one has asked this question or raised this point in nineteen pages: did -HEO have dual controls or that more-usual, Beechcraft swing-over affair? Those swing-over controls would <not> be conducive, I think, to an instructor taking control in a hurry...

Just a thought, that.
Hi Christopher,

I sat in HEO about two hours before the accident and can confirm that it was definitely fitted with dual controls.
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Re: Twin down in Glen Austin Midrand

Unread post by Christopher » Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:09 pm

Tks, both SR and Hunter!
Christopher Godfrey (always missing aviation!)

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