Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by heisan » Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:40 pm

John.com wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:24 pm
I found this outstanding article, written by Gregory Travis, a pilot for 30 years and a software developer for more than 40.

How the Boeing 737 Max Disaster Looks to a Software Developer - Design shortcuts meant to make a new plane seem like an old, familiar one are to blame

(I searched to see if it had been posted before, so apologies in advance if it has been)
It is indeed already on the thread. And virtually everything in this article is utter garbage...
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by Wingman » Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:06 pm

Rather silly question:
wont there be some form of deterioration of concern safety wise to these planes being just parked?
I mean even a car just left out in the open for a year picks up all sorts from battery to tyres going in to bad wiper blades and stuff just the minor - not sure with planes that size just sitting there for a year.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by wysiwyg » Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:04 pm

Wingman wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:06 pm
Rather silly question:
wont there be some form of deterioration of concern safety wise to these planes being just parked?
I mean even a car just left out in the open for a year picks up all sorts from battery to tyres going in to bad wiper blades and stuff just the minor - not sure with planes that size just sitting there for a year.
I have no doubt that the batteries would have been removed. Perhaps other items too. Then depending on the time out of service there will be a strict 're-introduction into service' check/program for each aircraft.

I don't have any safety concerns
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by Wingnutter » Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:05 pm

Not sure if this has been posted before but good summary:

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by stildalf » Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:48 am

A good summary and update on the 737 Max. Interesting to note the overhaul/rethink in the way the Flight Control Computers operate in general, not just for MCAS.

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by Ugly Duckling » Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:11 pm

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by tansg » Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:07 am

Ugly Duckling wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:11 pm
FIGJAM?

Should someone in his position be involving himself in this? Surely this would create a perception bias if he has to make a hard decision later? Doesn't the FAA have experts way more competent and capable than him to do this? Doesn't he trust his own staff to do this properly? Or is this just politicking for the benefit of future career ambitions?

Or maybe he is just trying to show concern and involvement in cleaning up the mess. Sorry I am cynic having seen to many of these types in my career.

Just a few questions I was pondering. :smt017 :smt017

UAE GCAA stance on the 737 MAX below:

http://newsinflight.com/2019/09/16/boei ... -emirates/
Last edited by tansg on Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:08 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by Ugly Duckling » Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:22 am

FIGJAM not sure :D
Syrup of fig does bring out some 💩
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by StressMerchant » Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:56 am

Worked with a very entertaining ex-Boeing Jamaican design engineer a few years back. FIGJAM was his trademark phrase when things went well.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by Volo » Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:09 pm

Ugly Duckling wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:22 am
FIGJAM not sure :D
Syrup of fig does bring out some 💩
FIGJAM - Is he working there now :?:
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by Thermalator » Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:33 pm

this issue is rippling thru the industry

EASA has just amended A321 Neo flight manuals & modified aft CG limits as a result, forcing empty back rows in some cases

https://simpleflying.com/airbus-a321neo-pitch-problem/
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by tansg » Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:48 am

Thermalator wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:33 pm
this issue is rippling thru the industry
This is not a bad thing. The industry has become to comfortable with itself and this whole debacle has forced the industry to sit up and pay attention to some of the issues which have been uncomfortable for years but which were not addressed because the safety was so good. I personally am in favour of the present situation of revalidation of many the assumptions and procedures on which the industry are based as it should provide the vehicle to tackle some of the rot introduced by a moving of focus away from safety to profits. My personal pet hate is the MPL project which was, is and will always be a bad safety idea.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by jimdavis » Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:06 am

tansg wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:48 am
Thermalator wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:33 pm
this issue is rippling thru the industry
This is not a bad thing. The industry has become to comfortable with itself and this whole debacle has forced the industry to sit up and pay attention to some of the issues which have been uncomfortable for years but which were not addressed because the safety was so good. I personally am in favour of the present situation of revalidation of many the assumptions and procedures on which the industry are based as it should provide the vehicle to tackle some of the rot introduced by a moving of focus away from safety to profits. My personal pet hate is the MPL project which was, is and will always be a bad safety idea.
Tansg, I am very much with you on the MPL issue, but as for the rest - hmmmm I'm not sure. We think this must be costing Boeing a fortune, but Boeing get their money from us, so we are the ones paying the Boeing's greed and the FAA's slackness and lack of oversight.

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by MadMacs » Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:30 pm

Thermalator wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:33 pm
this issue is rippling thru the industry

EASA has just amended A321 Neo flight manuals & modified aft CG limits as a result, forcing empty back rows in some cases

https://simpleflying.com/airbus-a321neo-pitch-problem/
That article is very misleading. The potential problem that the A320 neo has, is completely different to the Max issues. It has been found that the CoG problem is related only to those aircraft with the new Flex cabin. Apparently Easyjet has modified the software on their aircraft and do not need to have empty seats. The problem is due to cabin layouts, for instance Lufthansa has the two cabin layouts where the forward part of the cabin has the reduced load due to the lay flat seats.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by Thermalator » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:32 am

MadMacs wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:30 pm
That article is very misleading. The potential problem that the A320 neo has, is completely different to the Max issues. It has been found that the CoG problem is related only to those aircraft with the new Flex cabin. Apparently Easyjet has modified the software on their aircraft and do not need to have empty seats. The problem is due to cabin layouts, for instance Lufthansa has the two cabin layouts where the forward part of the cabin has the reduced load due to the lay flat seats.
You may be right, but I think EASA had to re-evaluate the MAX's pitch stability versus certification & when they did the same for the A321 it failed at aft CG (thumb suck 2c - Better they do it before FAA does *Note no manufacturer specs this stuff according to cabin layouts, it's all ref CG).
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