RV landing on ORT TWY A..... dodge a Bus

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Re: RV landing on ORT TWY A..... dodge a Bus

Unread post by flypiper » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:32 am

Dragon ,

Well said :D
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Re: RV landing on ORT TWY A..... dodge a Bus

Unread post by Darren » Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:12 pm

Dragon wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:32 pm
Unfortunately the problem here is that this has seen far too much press for its own good, and now the CAA is most likely feeling international pressure to reassure ICAO and IATA and EASA and every other acronym you can think of, that our airspace is not a circus and is indeed safe to operate airliners full of passengers in and out of. Unfortunately with the grace of a swan.
Their response is clumsy, but if this really was a case of the flight being fully cleared and the pilot mistakenly landing on the taxiway they’re not going to be able to charge him with other violations unless they want to see their actions reviewed and overturned in court as a PAJA violation.

They’ll probably throw the book at him as far as they can, but there’s no way they can get him for an airspace violation if he was indeed ATC-cleared.
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Re: RV landing on ORT TWY A..... dodge a Bus

Unread post by Chalkie » Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:32 pm

As PJL said, the entire incident is a storm in a teacup...
Storm in a Tea cup.jpeg
A lot has been said about the pilot, not much about ATC in the tower. From what I hear the controller might have caused the confusion by shouting repeatedly at the pilot to 'Land on the Left - the Left' so I do hope that the CAA investigation includes listening to the ATC tapes for that day.

The pilot could confirm this rumour or repudiate it?
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Re: RV landing on ORT TWY A..... dodge a Bus

Unread post by Darren » Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:03 pm

Chalkie wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:32 pm
As PJL said, the entire incident is a storm in a teacup...

Storm in a Tea cup.jpeg

A lot has been said about the pilot, not much about ATC in the tower. From what I hear the controller might have caused the confusion by shouting repeatedly at the pilot to 'Land on the Left - the Left' so I do hope that the CAA investigation includes listening to the ATC tapes for that day.

The pilot could confirm this rumour or repudiate it?
Interesting, thanks.

I suspect the pilot has received legal advice to say nothing outside of official proceedings. As things stand they have not been publicly identified and it's in their best interests to keep it that way.
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Re: RV landing on ORT TWY A..... dodge a Bus

Unread post by Dragon » Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:09 pm

Darren wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:12 pm
Dragon wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:32 pm
Unfortunately the problem here is that this has seen far too much press for its own good, and now the CAA is most likely feeling international pressure to reassure ICAO and IATA and EASA and every other acronym you can think of, that our airspace is not a circus and is indeed safe to operate airliners full of passengers in and out of. Unfortunately with the grace of a swan.
Their response is clumsy, but if this really was a case of the flight being fully cleared and the pilot mistakenly landing on the taxiway they’re not going to be able to charge him with other violations unless they want to see their actions reviewed and overturned in court as a PAJA violation.

They’ll probably throw the book at him as far as they can, but there’s no way they can get him for an airspace violation if he was indeed ATC-cleared.
Quite true.
You can read on pge2 what I thought happened points 2+3.
In a “Just” culture they should realise its an honest and even predictable mistake for an inexperienced pilot. A Blackswan (NNT) event. There too is the lesson that ATC could have scheduled a quieter time for him to arrive and a better briefing. Does a PowerPoint briefing package for visiting inexperienced pilots even exist? They should have one. From time to time it is necessary for them to come in (civilian/medical/military etc) these are the types of things that need to change, not just fine the pilot and repeat in a years time. CAA are just appeasing everyone that the airspace is still safely sterile, I don’t think they are out for blood.
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Re: RV landing on ORT TWY A..... dodge a Bus

Unread post by cage » Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:26 pm

Dragon wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:09 pm
Does a PowerPoint briefing package for visiting inexperienced pilots even exist? They should have one. From time to time it is necessary for them to come in (civilian/medical/military etc) these are the types of things that need to change, not just fine the pilot and repeat in a years time. CAA are just appeasing everyone that the airspace is still safely sterile, I don’t think they are out for blood.
Any info you need will be found in the AIP's, something you are expected to check and know before undertaking a flight (easily accessible via the web).
If you need a powerpoint then you should hand your license back and rather call an uber.
Mistakes happen, mistakes also kill people.

Even Harry Ford had to do some remedial penance after his error, so hopefully the crime will fit the punishment.
When you jump into a light aircraft and head for the busiest airport without being suitably prepared, chances are there is an aspect of showing off, as there were plenty of alternatives if he wasn't comfortable, but they wouldn't have been so glamorous.

You would hope the regulator will act (fairly) with the end objective of a wiser pilot.
Chances are, though, he will end up with a 20k fine and a black mark in the record and have learned little.
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Re: RV landing on ORT TWY A..... dodge a Bus

Unread post by ACE MAN » Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:14 am

Darren wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:03 pm
Chalkie wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:32 pm
As PJL said, the entire incident is a storm in a teacup...

Storm in a Tea cup.jpeg

A lot has been said about the pilot, not much about ATC in the tower. From what I hear the controller might have caused the confusion by shouting repeatedly at the pilot to 'Land on the Left - the Left' so I do hope that the CAA investigation includes listening to the ATC tapes for that day.

The pilot could confirm this rumour or repudiate it?
Interesting, thanks.

I suspect the pilot has received legal advice to say nothing outside of official proceedings. As things stand they have not been publicly identified and it's in their best interests to keep it that way.
https://www.netwerk24.com/Nuus/Algemeen ... k-20190914
BLO: Tuigie op O.R. Tambo ‘bisar, gevaarlik’
Deur Erika Gibson 15 September 2019

Die vlieënier en sy vriend wat daarvan beskuldig word dat hulle onwettig met ’n klein vliegtuigie op die O.R. Tambo-lughawe geland het om ’n haastige jagter daar af te laai, sê dit was alles weens verwarring met die beheertoring.
’n Video waarop Conrad Botha en Alec Salley, twee bekendes in kunsvliegkringe, twee weke gelede doodluiters met ’n viersitplek-RV-10-vliegtuig tussen groot passasierstralers op die aanloopbaan deurry om ’n passasier te gaan aflaai, het onlangs opslae gemaak. Die Burgerlugvaartowerheid (BLO) ondersoek sedertdien die voorval.
Botha het die afgelope week vertel hy het as ’n guns vir ’n vriend ’n Amerikaanse gas van Bloemfontein af O.R. Tambo toe gebring nadat haar vlug soontoe sonder kennisgewing gekanselleer is. Salley was die vlieënier.
Hy sê hy het vlugplanne ingedien en haar bagasie, ook ’n jaggeweer met al die nodige permitte, ingelaai met volle klaring van doeanebeamptes op die Bram Fischer-lughawe in Bloemfontein.
Die eerste teken van probleme was toe hy op O.R. Tambo aangesê is om uit te wyk toe hy wil land. Dieselfde lugruimbeheer­beampte het toe later per radio laat weet hulle kan maar op dieselfde aanloopbaan kom land, sê Botha.
Maar toe neem ’n ander beheerder oor en sê: “links, links!”
“Ons was oorgelaat aan waar die beheerder ons heen beduie het. Ons het nie geweet watter vliegtuie bo of agter ons was nie,” sê Botha. Daar was nie links of regs ’n veilige uitweg nie en hulle het toe maar aangekruie op die verbindingspad tussen die aanloopbaan en die laaiblad.
“Ons is na ’n parkeerplek toe beduie en die passasier is per bussie geneem om haar vlug te gaan haal. Daarna het ons weer vir klaring gevra om op te styg en ons is terug Bloemfontein toe sonder probleme.”
Was dit nie vir die video wat toe op sosiale media beland het nie, was dit waarskynlik die einde van die stories. Maar toe raak almal in beroering en sommige kommentators beweer selfs die lugmag sou die “indringervliegtuig” kon neerskiet.
Die BLO het in ’n verklaring gesê vlieëniers wat net ’n basiese private vlieglisensie het, mag nie op ’n kommersiële lughawe land nie. “Die BLO beskou die insident as bisar, kommerwekkend en erg gevaarlik,” het Poppy Khoza, direkteur van die BLO, in die verklaring gesê.
Botha en Salley verskyn Dinsdag voor ’n ondersoekpaneel van die BLO.
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Re: RV landing on ORT TWY A..... dodge a Bus

Unread post by Ray W » Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:19 am

Die BLO het in ’n verklaring gesê vlieëniers wat net ’n basiese private vlieglisensie het, mag nie op ’n kommersiële lughawe land nie.
What a lot of bull <<moderated - language>>.
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Re: RV landing on ORT TWY A..... dodge a Bus

Unread post by ddevos » Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:32 am

Ray W wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:19 am
Die BLO het in ’n verklaring gesê vlieëniers wat net ’n basiese private vlieglisensie het, mag nie op ’n kommersiële lughawe land nie.
What a lot of bull <<moderated - language>>.
My sentiments exactly! How does a pilot do solo aerobatic displays with just a "basic" PPL?
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Re: RV landing on ORT TWY A..... dodge a Bus

Unread post by ACE MAN » Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:33 am

Ray W wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:19 am
Die BLO het in ’n verklaring gesê vlieëniers wat net ’n basiese private vlieglisensie het, mag nie op ’n kommersiële lughawe land nie.
What a lot of bull <<moderated - language>>.
Exactly, I can only think some of that article is lost in translation, also the regulator is often filled with people that have never even flown in light aircraft but like to lay down the law.
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Re: RV landing on ORT TWY A..... dodge a Bus

Unread post by ACE MAN » Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:40 am

Part of the problem I see is that there are far too many that are more interested in their position of authority, than their interest in aviation. In fact it is unbelievable the amount of ATC/CAA types out there that actually have some agenda against aviation , the pure source of their existence. On the other hand we are fortunate to have many that actually do really make a difference but may be under too much pressure to voice their opinion and speak against the policing individuals.
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Re: RV landing on ORT TWY A..... dodge a Bus

Unread post by cage » Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:21 am

ACE MAN wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:40 am
Part of the problem I see is that there are far too many that are more interested in their position of authority, than their interest in aviation. In fact it is unbelievable the amount of ATC/CAA types out there that actually have some agenda against aviation , the pure source of their existence. On the other hand we are fortunate to have many that actually do really make a difference but may be under too much pressure to voice their opinion and speak against the policing individuals.
I suspect someone got the wrong end of the stick. Even by CAA standards that is dof and you don't need to be a rocket scientist to know what the privileges of a PPL are.
On a different note, the controllers at ORT aren't newbs, they are also a professional bunch so blaming a k*k landing on the tower seems like rubbish. Just sounds like they were hopelessly out of their depth.
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Re: RV landing on ORT TWY A..... dodge a Bus

Unread post by Airwayfreak » Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:24 am

Ray W wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:19 am
Die BLO het in ’n verklaring gesê vlieëniers wat net ’n basiese private vlieglisensie het, mag nie op ’n kommersiële lughawe land nie.
What a lot of bull <<moderated - language>>.
The CAA never ever said such thing. Very poor reporting by Erika Gibson
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Re: RV landing on ORT TWY A..... dodge a Bus

Unread post by Darren » Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:28 am

Airwayfreak wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:24 am
Ray W wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:19 am
Die BLO het in ’n verklaring gesê vlieëniers wat net ’n basiese private vlieglisensie het, mag nie op ’n kommersiële lughawe land nie.
What a lot of bull <<moderated - language>>.
The CAA never ever said such thing. Very poor reporting by Erika Gibson
Correct. While the CAA's press release was poorly-worded, it quite clearly referred to PPLs not being allowed to conduct commercial operations, which anyone in aviation knows is about flying revenue-generating flights, not which airports you are permitted to land at. Poor reporting.

As for the pilot's explanation, I'm sorry I don't buy it. While ATC's instructions might've been inadequate and confusing, it's the PIC's responsibility to ensure a safe landing and if he was unsure he should've called a go-around and requested clarification. Going ahead and landing on a taxiway was poor airmanship.
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Re: RV landing on ORT TWY A..... dodge a Bus

Unread post by Airwayfreak » Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:48 am

Darren wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:28 am
Going ahead and landing on a taxiway was poor airmanship.
Not the first nor the last time this has happened. Most major airport's taxiways are the size of regional airprit's runways so he can be forgiven. At the end of the day nobody died. Errors happen on a daily basis in the airline industry and the average man in the street does not even get to hear about them. This is nothing but a storm in a teacup as someone mentioned earlier

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