Draco down

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Re: Draco down

Unread post by Dragon » Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:27 pm

Sad loss of a lovely aeroplane. Good on him for claiming responsibility and opening it up as a learning opportunity because I have a feeling that overconfidence and complacency are going to sit on top of the pyramid for this one. Plenty of bad decisions, followed by a cascade of unfortunate actions, with the wind not playing nice.

That crosswind was plenty strong, I reckon more like 20-30kts, and he says he needed to apply more aileron at one stage? I didn’t really see a moment when he didn’t require full aileron. For a number of reasons I think he realises he needs to revisit his crosswind technique too. He didn’t have a good day, but it could’ve been worse- no one got hurt!
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Re: Draco down

Unread post by Kortbroek » Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:30 pm

117 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:36 pm
Ok, so the vlog admits wrong doing. Ok, cool. Is all forgiven then? ( it is the modern age of vlogs after all)

As viewers we believe the vlog and it's content well before any safety group had its say. Ok, cool?

Personly, I'd rather be hind quartered than agree to the 'ag shame' brigade
Nice cheap and nasty right there :)

If you read up on the man you'll realise he's a well experienced pilot, he just made a stupid decision on the day. I'd hardly lump him in with your average "look at me" Vlogger. I think by now it's been well established that even very experienced pilots get it wrong sometimes. He fairly straight forward put to bed what went wrong and his decisions that led up to that, the 3rd party video of the accident pretty much confirms what he said.

Wouldn't the world be a better place if all pilots that pranged and survived did a nice debrief so people can learn from their mistakes? That is after all what this section of the forum is about. Just the other day in the Jabi prang thread everyone was saying all the pilot has to do is explain what went wrong... :wink:

That said, I was also surprised to see a video so soon after, but in the grander scheme of things in the social media era, maybe killing wild speculation early is a good idea if you can? I don't think he's asking anyone to "forgive and forget"as you put it...

Some really good learning points in there, here's just a few to start with:
1) The self instilled pressure not to annoy the tower as he put it.
2) Maybe some self induced rush because of the perceived break in the wind...get out fast while there is a gap kind of thing.
3) He doesn't mention it but the possible spectators and Draco's reputation probably didn't help his decision making.
4) cascade of small errors, he mentions various warning signs during the taxi that he should have taken note of and didn't. This one is such a common feature in so many accidents, not just in aviation.

my 2c as a lowly paraglider :P
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Re: Draco down

Unread post by Dragon » Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:15 am

Mike and Draco were all about publicity, and it would have been “political” suicide for his publicity campaigns not to have come clean and owned up to what happened. On the other side I am willing to bet with this honest pouring out of his heart he will retain enough heartfelt support for Draco to possibly even finance the rebuild or v2. So some of this was done instinctively as a Vlogger.

And yet I also believe he put it all out there for two other reasons. One was to get the guilt he was feeling off his chest by sharing his story, so that he could start the procedure of processing the whole thing in his mind, working through it and in time dealing with it and healing from it.

The other I do believe is an honest attempt to allow firstly himself but more importantly others to learn from the experience, and he has put all the tools on the table, full video disclosure and immediate full admission of the mistakes he recognized in himself. As others have said he was not your average pilot, yet we are human and we all make mistakes. Thanks to his opening up, hopefully now we can also figure out the mistakes he couldn’t see in himself and the role they played eg should flaps have been used etc. There will be a great deal that can be learnt from this mishap.

I certainly look forward to seeing everyone learn a thing or two and then have an even better Draco2 flying in the not too distant future.
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Re: Draco down

Unread post by Broadbandboer » Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:17 am

117 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:17 pm
Broadbandboer wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:38 pm
Glad everyone is ok. Just goes to show that the weather does not look or judge who or what is flying. If it’s not flying weather it’s not flying weather. I really enjoyed following that plane on IG. Hopefully it will be rebuilt.


On the contrary.... The wx will always win - so why tempt it?

As i said on the other thread, its sad for the showman when time moves quickly
That is exactly what I meant. If the weather is not suitable for flying it will win every time. It doesn’t care if you are famous in a high performance aircraft or a weekend warrior in a c150.

Well done on him on admitting his mistake and making it a learning opportunity.
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Re: Draco down

Unread post by Tim » Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:29 am

I think he comes across as genuine.
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Re: Draco down

Unread post by cage » Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:09 am

Tim wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:29 am
I think he comes across as genuine.
I think so, but the first instinct was to make more videos.
These vloggers need to be careful, they are at risk of letting all the adoring fans go to their heads and to start believing they are more talented than they really are.
Nature doesn't care how many likes you have.
It all gets a bit attention-seeking for my liking, but each to their own.
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Re: Draco down

Unread post by lampiesJR » Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:14 am

jimdavis wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:09 pm
Well done for taking on the weather and losing?
Personly, I'd rather be hind quartered than agree to the 'ag shame' brigade
Like he said on the video, they have flown in winds like this before, “would’ve been in the air after 25ft”. Mike is quite a capable pilot. His achievements speaks for itself. But also, like he said, he made a mistake. He takes every bit of blame in this accident on his two shoulders.
Judging by these comments, it seems like some people are resistant to mistakes. They never probably had one of those moments where you thought “that could’ve been worse”. Thats says a lot about the ego....and learning from past accidents, that stupid little ego is a big killer...
He definitely wouldn’t have even attempted to start the plane if he knew he was going to total his million dollar aircraft and risk people’s lives.
Whether its on startup, taxi, takeoff, flying, landing, ground handling, refueling or even in the mechanic workshop, the opportunity is always there to make a mistake. It doesn’t matter who you are or what you tell me. Sometimes the outcome of such mistakes are less bad than other times. Fortunately, most of the times people live to tell the tale afterwards, and I appreciate it a hell of a lot if they share their experiences. Thats the best way young, unexperienced pilots, like I see myself, learn.
And I’ll admit, the most “real world” experience I’ve learnt thus far was not from the book I studied for my PPL, it was from very experienced aviators that has walked that cruel, difficult road before. Weather they give me advice or simply just stepping back and see what they do in certain scenarios, I take it with open hands. That might just save me and my passenger one day
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Re: Draco down

Unread post by jimdavis » Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:32 am

lampiesJR wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:14 am
jimdavis wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:09 pm
Well done for taking on the weather and losing?
Personly, I'd rather be hind quartered than agree to the 'ag shame' brigade
Like he said on the video, they have flown in winds like this before, “would’ve been in the air after 25ft”. Mike is quite a capable pilot. His achievements speaks for itself. But also, like he said, he made a mistake. He takes every bit of blame in this accident on his two shoulders.
Judging by these comments, it seems like some people are resistant to mistakes. They never probably had one of those moments where you thought “that could’ve been worse”. Thats says a lot about the ego....and learning from past accidents, that stupid little ego is a big killer...
He definitely wouldn’t have even attempted to start the plane if he knew he was going to total his million dollar aircraft and risk people’s lives.
Whether its on startup, taxi, takeoff, flying, landing, ground handling, refueling or even in the mechanic workshop, the opportunity is always there to make a mistake. It doesn’t matter who you are or what you tell me. Sometimes the outcome of such mistakes are less bad than other times. Fortunately, most of the times people live to tell the tale afterwards, and I appreciate it a hell of a lot if they share their experiences. Thats the best way young, unexperienced pilots, like I see myself, learn.
And I’ll admit, the most “real world” experience I’ve learnt thus far was not from the book I studied for my PPL, it was from very experienced aviators that has walked that cruel, difficult road before. Weather they give me advice or simply just stepping back and see what they do in certain scenarios, I take it with open hands. That might just save me and my passenger one day
Lampies, I hear what you say, and you have an old head on young shoulders - there is good advice in your words. BUT - it is a mistake to select the wrong tank, and something more than a mistake to deliberately operate on what you know to be the very edge of your own, and the aircraft's, ability, in orderer to impress the crowd. And downright irresponsible to do so with pax on board.

But I have to admit that in my younger days I did equally naughty things :oops: - but without pax. And perhaps my luck was a little better than this guy's, and maybe I didn't go quite so close to the limits.

jim
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Re: Draco down

Unread post by Airwayfreak » Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:07 am

Mike is a mate of mine. Lots of assumptions made here by those not quite familiar with the man.
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Re: Draco down

Unread post by Iceberg » Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:14 am

Some facts from a facebook video:
1.The wind was 260 24kts gusting 38.
2.They used runway 22.

So with a 30kt wind crossed at 40 deg then crosswind was about 20 kts.

One thing that came out in the video: Draco has trailing link landing gear. The crosswind component already lifted the left wing by depressing the right gear trailing link mechanism. This was the case even before the take off run started. So as soon as the aircraft lifted it just tipped over.
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Re: Draco down

Unread post by Mike Wissing » Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:32 am

I'm sorry, but I predicted this a while ago when he took off out of my local airport.
On this takeoff out of Reno he couldn't even keep the left wing down on the initial takeoff roll. That should have been his second warning. I'm just glad nobody got hurt. I know people will claim he is a friend, all round good guy and a "great chap" (and will be butt hurt and "offended" and do the Avcom dance), but that doesn't detract from the fact he is a show off and a risk taker. That is a deadly combination. People often confuse an accomplished pilot with a good one. Not all accomplished pilots are good, safe airplane drivers.
Who cares if he admitted to his gross error in judgement - he damn near killed his wife. There were people to watch him, an airplane that is a "legend", and a world class event - the perfect storm for an unforced, unnecessary error. People who defend this crash should take a long hard look at themselves and perhaps just listen quietly and learn from Mikes mistake. I'm not saying he is a bad pilot, I just think he got caught up in his own hype and found out the hard way the limits of both himself and the now destroyed Draco :(

An old saying goes: "The severity of the accident is directly proportional to the crowed watching it".....so true.

Don't attack me about this....I was there! The wind was vicious.
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Re: Draco down

Unread post by Firedog » Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:35 am

It takes a real man to own up to the mistake he made and to use his media platform to analyze what led to his poor decision so that others may learn is in my opinion of great worth. Casting stones - well that is your free opinion. However, what I would like to know from our experienced members - would a low wing aircraft with similar power and weight have fared better in a strong crosswind like that? What about nose wheel vs tail wheel? It would be interesting to have some thoughts/opinions.
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Re: Draco down

Unread post by Ugly Duckling » Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:47 am

Uncle Jim
In the "old days", pre cellphone camera and social media when we did stooopid stuff the only record was the playback between your ears and sometimes from bystanders.
With the technology on hand today you can't break wind downrange and deny it :lol:
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Re: Draco down

Unread post by tbone » Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:48 am

Anyone actually following Draco... would have posted, His airshow / STOL demo insurance was cancelled, a week before Reno... Cause they saw it as too much of a liability for him to race....

Go figure
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Re: Draco down

Unread post by Kortbroek » Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:06 am

tbone wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:48 am
Anyone actually following Draco... would have posted, His airshow / STOL demo insurance was cancelled, a week before Reno... Cause they saw it as too much of a liability for him to race....

Go figure
The didn't cancel his insurance, they just upped the premium because it is a very expensive plane taking part in high risk flying activities. He decided to stop competing in draco because he felt the insurance premium was not worth it...not like they said "we think you're a risky pilot so won't insure you" :roll:
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