Draco down

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Airwayfreak
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Re: Draco down

Unread post by Airwayfreak » Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:10 am

Mike Wissing wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:32 am
I'm sorry, but I predicted this a while ago when he took off out of my local airport.
On this takeoff out of Reno he couldn't even keep the left wing down on the initial takeoff roll. That should have been his second warning. I'm just glad nobody got hurt. I know people will claim he is a friend, all round good guy and a "great chap" (and will be butt hurt and "offended" and do the Avcom dance), but that doesn't detract from the fact he is a show off and a risk taker. That is a deadly combination. People often confuse an accomplished pilot with a good one. Not all accomplished pilots are good, safe airplane drivers.
Who cares if he admitted to his gross error in judgement - he damn near killed his wife. There were people to watch him, an airplane that is a "legend", and a world class event - the perfect storm for an unforced, unnecessary error. People who defend this crash should take a long hard look at themselves and perhaps just listen quietly and learn from Mikes mistake. I'm not saying he is a bad pilot, I just think he got caught up in his own hype and found out the hard way the limits of both himself and the now destroyed Draco :(

An old saying goes: "The severity of the accident is directly proportional to the crowed watching it".....so true.

Don't attack me about this....I was there! The wind was vicious.
Not attacking, just responding.

Nobody is butt hurt as you so succinctly put it. Airshow pilots are by nature risk-takers and so-called show-offs. Mike handled this way better than several other risk-takers and so-called show-offs who have had similar incidents. He has tried to turn his mistake into a lesson for others. It's always very easy to pontificate and wag fingers sagely as an onlooker after the fact. Every time a display pilot gets airborne, a potential disaster awaits. When the display pilots land safely, hands are clapped, but when they become a crash scene, the daggers come out and everybody has a viewpoint.

Aviation is by nature a dangerous past time. People will die and get injured.
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Re: Draco down

Unread post by 117 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:20 am

jimdavis wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:32 am


Lampies, I hear what you say, and you have an old head on young shoulders - there is good advice in your words. BUT - it is a mistake to select the wrong tank, and something more than a mistake to deliberately operate on what you know to be the very edge of your own, and the aircraft's, ability, in order to impress the crowd. And downright irresponsible to do so with pax on board.

...

jim

I think Jim sums it up squarely here, regardless of the popularity status or not.
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Re: Draco down

Unread post by Ugly Duckling » Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:21 am

Airwayfreak wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:10 am
Mike Wissing wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:32 am
I'm sorry, but I predicted this a while ago when he took off out of my local airport.
On this takeoff out of Reno he couldn't even keep the left wing down on the initial takeoff roll. That should have been his second warning. I'm just glad nobody got hurt. I know people will claim he is a friend, all round good guy and a "great chap" (and will be butt hurt and "offended" and do the Avcom dance), but that doesn't detract from the fact he is a show off and a risk taker. That is a deadly combination. People often confuse an accomplished pilot with a good one. Not all accomplished pilots are good, safe airplane drivers.
Who cares if he admitted to his gross error in judgement - he damn near killed his wife. There were people to watch him, an airplane that is a "legend", and a world class event - the perfect storm for an unforced, unnecessary error. People who defend this crash should take a long hard look at themselves and perhaps just listen quietly and learn from Mikes mistake. I'm not saying he is a bad pilot, I just think he got caught up in his own hype and found out the hard way the limits of both himself and the now destroyed Draco :(

An old saying goes: "The severity of the accident is directly proportional to the crowed watching it".....so true.

Don't attack me about this....I was there! The wind was vicious.

Aviation is by nature a dangerous past time. People will die and get injured.
As a CAP & SAR pilot in the States nobody understands that statement better than Mike does.
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Re: Draco down

Unread post by Airwayfreak » Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:32 am

Ugly Duckling wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:21 am
As a CAP & SAR pilot in the States nobody understands that statement better than Mike does.
Being a CAP pilot is not what makes Mike Wissing a respected S&R pilot. Trust me when I say that some CAP pilots should not even be trusted with a supermarket trolley.
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Re: Draco down

Unread post by B.hawker » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:00 am

Very sad but he walked away from it so as the saying goes.....that landing was not too bad.

I think he has gone through a very expensive recalibration exercise....and exactly as he said, it's all self imposed - at least he did not look for excuses - its on him and that's it.

It won't be long before we see something new and sensational on his channel.....Scrappy is coming.

And lets be honest, lovers or haters, Mike and Draco were sensational and I am sure most of those who have seen his vlogs have a new appreciation for STOL.
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Re: Draco down

Unread post by jimdavis » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:19 am

Mike Wissing wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:32 am
I'm sorry, but I predicted this a while ago when he took off out of my local airport.
On this takeoff out of Reno he couldn't even keep the left wing down on the initial takeoff roll. That should have been his second warning. I'm just glad nobody got hurt. I know people will claim he is a friend, all round good guy and a "great chap" (and will be butt hurt and "offended" and do the Avcom dance), but that doesn't detract from the fact he is a show off and a risk taker. That is a deadly combination. People often confuse an accomplished pilot with a good one. Not all accomplished pilots are good, safe airplane drivers.
Who cares if he admitted to his gross error in judgement - he damn near killed his wife. There were people to watch him, an airplane that is a "legend", and a world class event - the perfect storm for an unforced, unnecessary error. People who defend this crash should take a long hard look at themselves and perhaps just listen quietly and learn from Mikes mistake. I'm not saying he is a bad pilot, I just think he got caught up in his own hype and found out the hard way the limits of both himself and the now destroyed Draco :(

An old saying goes: "The severity of the accident is directly proportional to the crowed watching it".....so true.

Don't attack me about this....I was there! The wind was vicious.
Well said, Mike, my thoughts exactly - only you expressed them better than I did. =D> =D> =D>

jim
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Re: Draco down

Unread post by Jason » Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:00 am

Mike certainly made big errors in his decision making on flying that day (my 2 cents worth), looked bad. However i like that he does push the boundaries of engineering in his work, we need people like him.

Cant comment on his flying as i dont know him at all .

Glad everyone walked away from that .
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Re: Draco down

Unread post by richard C » Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:47 am

For me, the big lesson is this:

Don't always trust yourself.

He is (understandably) furious with himself because he knows full well he screwed the pooch. He acknowledges that he should have taken the option to taxi back. On that confession comes the whole gamut of appreciating just how badly he messed up. And he can not flinch away from the harsh truth that it all hung on his own ego and stubbornness.

As a low hour and infrequent recreational pilot I have to acknowledge that I am a danger to myself, and consciously do a risk assessment before I fly. What is on the table ? What do I have to lose and what do I have to gain ? No matter how current, experienced, or rated you are, you simply cannot trust yourself to always make the right decision.

If you think I am talking nonsense, just take into account that the USA has 52 GA CFIT's a year. One a week, nearly always fatal. It's a form of pilot error that takes place before you even get in your car.
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Re: Draco down

Unread post by Induna » Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:24 pm

Give the guy a break... There are threads here on AVCOM where people are encouraged to admit to their failures and then everyone is like "yeah good for you... we are glad you admitted... thank you for sharing..." It is almost like attending an AA group (no i haven't)...

Just because Mike is a public figure, now all of a sudden makes the AVCOM jury jumping up and down... He made a mistake (yes), he and his pax could have died (maybe), he admitted it without trying to make excuses or blame the aircraft (good for him), does the apology justifies his decisions or change the outcome (no, it already happened) but let us all learn from it and move on... [-o<
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Re: Draco down

Unread post by cage » Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:58 pm

Induna wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:24 pm
Give the guy a break...
Without trying to give the oke a hard time, I am certain his ego has received a thorough readjustment and thankfully without more severe consequences.
If you put yourself out there vlogging, broadcasting everything you do and looking for more and more subscribers, then you should be prepared for what comes your way when you pomp die hond for all to see.
It comes with the territory.
Ultimately it is more publicity and views, which makes more money, which will pay for rebuilding the aircraft - there's no such thing as bad publicity.
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Re: Draco down

Unread post by Fransw » Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:28 pm

Jason wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:00 am
Mike certainly made big errors in his decision making on flying that day (my 2 cents worth), looked bad. However i like that he does push the boundaries of engineering in his work, we need people like him.

Cant comment on his flying as i dont know him at all .

Glad everyone walked away from that .
IntereInteresting and true point! These guys are doing groundbreaking work. Imagine the HUGE risks people like Igor Sikorsky had to take 90 years ago with the first helicopter flights. The only reason why we don't see any videos on that is because there was no such thing...
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Re: Draco down

Unread post by Dragon » Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:37 pm

Iceberg wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:14 am
Some facts from a facebook video:
1.The wind was 260 24kts gusting 38.
2.They used runway 22.

So with a 30kt wind crossed at 40 deg then crosswind was about 20 kts.
Be careful if you ignore or average out the gusts. It is the max gusts that do the damage in an incident like this.
So that makes wind of 260 24 gusting 38 on
Rwy22 a minimum crosswind of 16kts gusting 25kts
It is the 25 you need to pay attention to rather than the 20.
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Re: Draco down

Unread post by Mrb13676 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:41 pm

I sense a degree of animosity towards those who record and vlog their flying, and it appears that they are held to a higher standard when things do go wrong.

I think a lot of credit should be given to many of these guys for stirring further interest in general aviation. The Mike Pateys, Trent Palmer’s, Josh Flowers(Aviation101), Niko Spryidonos(Niko’s Wings), Martin Pauly (N70TB), Steveo1kinevo of the world produce interesting content that is not self serving and seems to stem from a desire to share a love of aviation and what can be achieved.

Yes there are exceptions who use clickbaity titles, and seem to want to push their personal brands and may well push the limits.

The fact that someone has an active YouTube channel or a significant social media following reflects people’s interest in our career/hobby and this shouldn’t by definition mean that every action they take is aimed at generating more subscribers and views. You can criticise Mike Patey for filming immediately after but I would probably have done the same to prevent wild speculation especially in an aircraft that is wildly popular on the US airshow circuit. The guy is an innovator and a visionary who made a dreadful mistake - I for one am excited to see what he comes up with next.

Some may not understand the modern infatuation with documenting life, but this is the world as it is now. Will it change? Maybe. Maybe not.
For what it is worth, I record and publish some of my flights. I do it for my own records and not for any other reason than I enjoy it.
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Re: Draco down

Unread post by jimdavis » Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:45 pm

Fransw wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:28 pm
IntereInteresting and true point! These guys are doing groundbreaking work. Imagine the HUGE risks people like Igor Sikorsky had to take 90 years ago with the first helicopter flights. The only reason why we don't see any videos on that is because there was no such thing...
Groundbreaking and risk-taking is part of progress, it's good stuff, but it shouldn't be done with pax on board. That's my bitch about this whole thing.

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Re: Draco down

Unread post by richard C » Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:46 pm

Dragon wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:37 pm
Iceberg wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:14 am
Some facts from a facebook video:
1.The wind was 260 24kts gusting 38.
2.They used runway 22.

So with a 30kt wind crossed at 40 deg then crosswind was about 20 kts.
Be careful if you ignore or average out the gusts. It is the max gusts that do the damage in an incident like this.
So that makes wind of 260 24 gusting 38 on
Rwy22 a minimum crosswind of 16kts gusting 25kts
It is the 25 you need to pay attention to rather than the 20.
Also, with sailing, the larger the gust spread, normally the greater angle between the gust and the lull in wind direction. A steady wind tends to blow from one direction at a constant velocity, gusty wind generally seems to blow from two different points at two different velocities, and the gust is generally not the prevailing direction. On a runway I would imagine the gust can 'clock' or 'back' rather dangerously.
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