What really brought down the Boeing 737 Max?

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Re: What really brought down the Boeing 737 Max?

Unread post by heisan » Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:51 pm

GL wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:49 pm
Just one thing - I reckon this para of your pretty much sums up the pilots problem - but the A/P did not trip off because it was not on - i understand the MCAS was only operational with the A/P off - and the flaps up?
The A/P tripped due to the AoA disagree, and MCAS started running 5 seconds later.

As to the other comments, many people fail to recall that there were two accidents. While the Lion Air crew may be given some latitude because they did not know about the system, the same can not be said about the Ethiopian Air crew. They were supposed to be fully aware of the contents of the AD, and thus the existence of MCAS, the symptoms of a failure, and how to deal with it. Although they did eventually identify the problem, they failed to correctly execute the AD procedure to deal with it. To compound it, they then failed to 'fly the aeroplane', and allowed airspeed to build to the point where control and trim forces were completely unmanageable.

Re-certification has taken a long time due to both the sheer amount of work involved, and political interference in what should be a technical process.

The FAA would have needed to review all of the development documents to verify that no other change had managed to escape review (especially now that a 'hole' in the review process was positively identified).

Then the FAA also changed their view on acceptable flight test standards for runaway systems, which required a number of additional system changes from Boeing's side. (This is likely to be an ongoing problem, as all new (and possibly existing) aircraft will need to be tested to these new standards, and many will be found wanting.)

About the only silver lining is that the FAA did not ground the NGs (many of the newly identified issues likely affect the NG too) - that would have put a substantial crimp on the entire airline industry...
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Re: What really brought down the Boeing 737 Max?

Unread post by gigajoules » Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:58 pm

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Re: What really brought down the Boeing 737 Max?

Unread post by Burner » Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:51 pm

Really really interesting video from FlightChops... Why airline pilots don't make the same fatal mistakes as GA pilots.

Maybe not completely on topic, can be split if the mods want.

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Re: What really brought down the Boeing 737 Max?

Unread post by Orthin Opter » Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:58 pm

gigajoules wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:58 pm
An interesting read... https://newrepublic.com/article/154944/ ... revolution
WOW! I need to take a day off and read that again...

"In its early aftermath, Lion Air 610’s fatal crash conformed too much to well-worn stereotypes about Indonesian safety standards to seem, at least to layman observers, like anything more significant than a cautionary tale about honeymooning in Bali. As it happened, the MAX flight directly before the crash had started nosediving right after takeoff, too. The pilots turned it up, but it dove down again and again, so the crew flew manually the whole way to Jakarta, where a passenger told the television reporters everyone on board had spent the whole ride “reciting every prayer” they knew. But all the pilots reported in a routine maintenance log that the plane’s speed trim system was “running to the wrong direction,” and that the air speed and altitude sensors were off. “Nothing about how, oh by the way, this plane is possessed by demons?” joked Aboulafia.

I copied other sections of this article. Let the courts decide. A sad indictment of the Boeing Corporation.
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines plane crashes on way to Nairobi

Unread post by Ajay » Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:24 am

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Re: What really brought down the Boeing 737 Max?

Unread post by kudu177 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:26 pm

Shieling wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:24 am
Unfortunately this is not the first time a lack of airmanship, understanding of the aircraft's systems and crew experience has played a part in an accident. In modern times the Asiana flight 214 accident in San Fransisco comes to mind.
Air France 447
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