C182 down in Zambesi Valley - the need for an ELT

What your instructor never taught you. Continuing your education and learning from others. Flight safety topics and accident/incident discussions.

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
GL
Niner Tousand
Niner Tousand
Posts: 9705
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:08 am
Closest Airfield: FACT
Location: Lost for words
Has liked: 110 times
Been liked: 313 times

C182 down in Zambesi Valley - the need for an ELT

Unread post by GL » Sun Oct 25, 2020 5:37 pm

A Cessna 182 doing conservation work crashed in the Mana Pools area on Friday. The wreckage was only discovered today - seemingly 48 hours later and in very inaccessible terrain.
From a WhatsApp -
"Just got some news. 4 people on plane, 2 survivors but they are in a bad way. One guy died on impact and one guy survived and went walking through the bush seeking help. He is still missing in a game area that is full of lion and everything else. Don't know who died or survived yet. Plane broken into many pieces and apparently had engine trouble."

I assume the a/c did not have a 406 ELT on board and that if it did much of the pain and suffering and anguish for loved ones would have been averted.
What if humanity is the disease and Covid-19 the cure?
User avatar
Raffles
1k poster
1k poster
Posts: 1046
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:47 pm
Closest Airfield: DFFD
Location: In the hold over the Silver Ball
Has liked: 111 times
Been liked: 50 times

Re: C182 down in Zambesi Valley - the need for an ELT

Unread post by Raffles » Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:45 pm

Where is Mana Pools?
Ralph M Wigzell.
My Dave Clarks cost me R200 when 1 ZAR = 1 USD
Hindsight is what you see from the tailgunner position.
User avatar
Burner
Fower Tousand
Fower Tousand
Posts: 4351
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:21 pm
Closest Airfield: LIMB
Location: SA
Has liked: 20 times
Been liked: 155 times

Re: C182 down in Zambesi Valley - the need for an ELT

Unread post by Burner » Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:47 pm

Raffles wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:45 pm
Where is Mana Pools?
Northern Zim.
User avatar
Raffles
1k poster
1k poster
Posts: 1046
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:47 pm
Closest Airfield: DFFD
Location: In the hold over the Silver Ball
Has liked: 111 times
Been liked: 50 times

Re: C182 down in Zambesi Valley - the need for an ELT

Unread post by Raffles » Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:49 pm

Thanks, I see it on GE now. Yeah, planes flying over heavily forested areas, remote regions etc should always have ELT, handheld radio, flare pistol etc what else can we add to the list?

I was just reading about the 1972 Andes crash they only managed to get help 2 months later after eating the dead to survive. And a whole bunch who survived the crash died of exposure and an avalanche a few weeks after the crash. Many more would have survived if the wreck was found sooner.
Ralph M Wigzell.
My Dave Clarks cost me R200 when 1 ZAR = 1 USD
Hindsight is what you see from the tailgunner position.
Dawlish
FREDA checks
Posts: 370
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 4:14 pm
Location: Johannesburg
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 5 times

Re: C182 down in Zambesi Valley - the need for an ELT

Unread post by Dawlish » Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:56 pm

Raffles wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:49 pm
Thanks, I see it on GE now. Yeah, planes flying over heavily forested areas, remote regions etc should always have ELT, handheld radio, flare pistol etc what else can we add to the list?

I was just reading about the 1972 Andes crash they only managed to get help 2 months later after eating the dead to survive. And a whole bunch who survived the crash died of exposure and an avalanche a few weeks after the crash. Many more would have survived if the wreck was found sooner.
a

Flying to remote areas makes satellite tracking systems a really sensible addition at a tiny additional cost per flying hour.

IndigoSat South Africa offers a system which uses GSM when available and automatically switches to satellite when GSM coverage not available.

It’s a no-brainer.
These users liked the author Dawlish for the post:
Taildraggerdriver
User avatar
Burner
Fower Tousand
Fower Tousand
Posts: 4351
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:21 pm
Closest Airfield: LIMB
Location: SA
Has liked: 20 times
Been liked: 155 times

Re: C182 down in Zambesi Valley - the need for an ELT

Unread post by Burner » Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:09 pm

Dawlish wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:56 pm
Raffles wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:49 pm
Thanks, I see it on GE now. Yeah, planes flying over heavily forested areas, remote regions etc should always have ELT, handheld radio, flare pistol etc what else can we add to the list?

I was just reading about the 1972 Andes crash they only managed to get help 2 months later after eating the dead to survive. And a whole bunch who survived the crash died of exposure and an avalanche a few weeks after the crash. Many more would have survived if the wreck was found sooner.
a

Flying to remote areas makes satellite tracking systems a really sensible addition at a tiny additional cost per flying hour.

IndigoSat South Africa offers a system which uses GSM when available and automatically switches to satellite when GSM coverage not available.

It’s a no-brainer.
Definitely... used the system plenty. The portable units are perfect for GA, and as you mention are very affordable. They have a button on them to push that will alert anyone tracking. It doesn't replace a 406 ELT, but if loved ones have the login details, they can easily see the aircraft position.
User avatar
Ryan Beeton
1k poster
1k poster
Posts: 1488
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:53 pm
Closest Airfield: FALA
Location: Jhb
Has liked: 5 times
Been liked: 1 time

Re: C182 down in Zambesi Valley - the need for an ELT

Unread post by Ryan Beeton » Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:39 pm

Terrible.

Went down in Chewore near the escarpment. Really thick bush.
Carpe Diem
Eddybear
ATC Delay
Posts: 124
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:35 am
Closest Airfield: Kitty Hawk
Location: Pretoria
Has liked: 13 times
Been liked: 0

Re: C182 down in Zambesi Valley - the need for an ELT

Unread post by Eddybear » Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:03 pm

Dawlish wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:56 pm
Raffles wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:49 pm
Thanks, I see it on GE now. Yeah, planes flying over heavily forested areas, remote regions etc should always have ELT, handheld radio, flare pistol etc what else can we add to the list?

I was just reading about the 1972 Andes crash they only managed to get help 2 months later after eating the dead to survive. And a whole bunch who survived the crash died of exposure and an avalanche a few weeks after the crash. Many more would have survived if the wreck was found sooner.
a

Flying to remote areas makes satellite tracking systems a really sensible addition at a tiny additional cost per flying hour.

IndigoSat South Africa offers a system which uses GSM when available and automatically switches to satellite when GSM coverage not available.

It’s a no-brainer.
I have said it before, and I know there are some that disagree, but a sat-tracker like IndigoSat or Spidertracks is in my opinion much much better than an ELT.

Within minutes people will know there is an issue, and they will know, within a very small area, where you are located.
User avatar
Chuck
Frequent AvComer
Posts: 826
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:08 pm
Closest Airfield: FLKK
Location: Lusaka, Zambia
Has liked: 81 times
Been liked: 53 times

Re: C182 down in Zambesi Valley - the need for an ELT

Unread post by Chuck » Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:02 pm

From the zambian pilots whatsapp group:

The pilot and an employee from the survey company were airlifted to Harare, with injuries and both dehydrated
The deceased is Mr. Petri Viljoen a conservationist and wildlife survey specialist. (R.I.P)

edit:
The Zimparks ranger that went looking for help has been found alive but severely dehydrated.

as of today unclear, apparently several teams and airplane still looking for him !


Sebastiaan Matla
Last edited by Chuck on Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
'What we find on internet, we readily believe, and what we ourselves find, we imagine others find also.'
Julius Ceasar, 44 BC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTSvgPO7jNU
User avatar
Raffles
1k poster
1k poster
Posts: 1046
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:47 pm
Closest Airfield: DFFD
Location: In the hold over the Silver Ball
Has liked: 111 times
Been liked: 50 times

Re: C182 down in Zambesi Valley - the need for an ELT

Unread post by Raffles » Mon Oct 26, 2020 5:08 pm

What was the tail number of the airplane?
Ralph M Wigzell.
My Dave Clarks cost me R200 when 1 ZAR = 1 USD
Hindsight is what you see from the tailgunner position.
User avatar
Chuck
Frequent AvComer
Posts: 826
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:08 pm
Closest Airfield: FLKK
Location: Lusaka, Zambia
Has liked: 81 times
Been liked: 53 times

Re: C182 down in Zambesi Valley - the need for an ELT

Unread post by Chuck » Mon Oct 26, 2020 5:12 pm

Raffles wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 5:08 pm
What was the tail number of the airplane?
C182 Z-YXY, apparently
These users liked the author Chuck for the post:
Raffles
'What we find on internet, we readily believe, and what we ourselves find, we imagine others find also.'
Julius Ceasar, 44 BC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTSvgPO7jNU
Tim
Airborne from Unmanned field
Posts: 478
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:44 am
Closest Airfield: FAGC
Location: Johannesburg
Has liked: 64 times
Been liked: 49 times

Re: C182 down in Zambesi Valley - the need for an ELT

Unread post by Tim » Mon Oct 26, 2020 5:14 pm

If I had to choose between the two, a proper satellite tracker is better and more reliable than an ELT.

ELT by design only starts transmitting *after* the crash. While a modern ELT would transmit the exact GPS coordinates of the crashed aircraft, statistics show that only in about 1/3 of crashes an ELT effectively deploys.

A sat tracker on the other hand transmits all the time before the crash. Even if it stopped transmitting after the crash, it still shows the track *to* the crash.

Often there is a legal requirement to have an ELT. I’d still double up with a tracker.
These users liked the author Tim for the post:
Eddybear
User avatar
Raffles
1k poster
1k poster
Posts: 1046
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:47 pm
Closest Airfield: DFFD
Location: In the hold over the Silver Ball
Has liked: 111 times
Been liked: 50 times

Re: C182 down in Zambesi Valley - the need for an ELT

Unread post by Raffles » Mon Oct 26, 2020 5:38 pm

There is a picture of the plane on this webpage, it looks like a very old model C182.
Ralph M Wigzell.
My Dave Clarks cost me R200 when 1 ZAR = 1 USD
Hindsight is what you see from the tailgunner position.
Taildraggerdriver
Frequent AvComer
Posts: 595
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:04 pm
Closest Airfield: faps
Location: Far west
Has liked: 52 times
Been liked: 30 times

Re: C182 down in Zambesi Valley - the need for an ELT

Unread post by Taildraggerdriver » Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:30 pm

That’s not good.
It’s real backcountry that.
Extremely remote
C210
Cirrus sailplane
User avatar
V5 - LEO
Seven Thousand
Seven Thousand
Posts: 7278
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:18 pm
Closest Airfield: FYWH
Location: Namibia
Has liked: 305 times
Been liked: 319 times

Re: C182 down in Zambesi Valley - the need for an ELT

Unread post by V5 - LEO » Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:31 pm

Raffles wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 5:38 pm
There is a picture of the plane on this webpage, it looks like a very old model C182.
...yes, straight back and upright vertical. 1950's
In God I trust. The masses are never right, the minority are sometimes right, but the truth is always right.
“One good teacher in a lifetime may sometimes change a delinquent into a solid citizen.” — Philip Wylie

Return to “Academy & Flight Safety”