Draco down

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ddevos
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Re: Draco down

Unread post by ddevos » Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:36 am

vindog wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:14 am
Anyone know which way the prop turns on the Draco which may have exacerbated the x wind?
Clockwise, when viewed from the cockpit, confirmed in a video of it starting up.
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Re: Draco down

Unread post by ddevos » Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:43 am

The video below shows just what Draco was capable of, making this mishap even more of a mystery. He could have just taken off using the width of the runway, would have been even more impressive for the spectators...

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Re: Draco down

Unread post by Mrb13676 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:46 am

Reminds me of the joke about the Irish pilots.....
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Re: Draco down

Unread post by richard C » Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:49 am

Spool up speed of a turbine cannot be ideal for a STOL application (for the landings I mean).
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Re: Draco down

Unread post by homebuilt » Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:27 pm

When there is doubt there is no doubt. Don't do it. By Mikes own admission "I should have used the other runway". What more is there to say. His brain told him something was wrong and he still went ahead and paid the price. You are normally quite an intelligent human being otherwise you would not be flying. Why then do you not listen to your brain when it says don't do it.
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Re: Draco down

Unread post by Induna » Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:45 pm

richard C wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:49 am
Spool up speed of a turbine cannot be ideal for a STOL application (for the landings I mean).
Maybe, but that prop reverse is much more effective in getting it slowed down and stopped very quickly !!!
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Re: Draco down

Unread post by ddevos » Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:09 pm

homebuilt wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:27 pm
When there is doubt there is no doubt. Don't do it. By Mikes own admission "I should have used the other runway". What more is there to say. His brain told him something was wrong and he still went ahead and paid the price. You are normally quite an intelligent human being otherwise you would not be flying. Why then do you not listen to your brain when it says don't do it.
Very well put indeed!
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Re: Draco down

Unread post by frikie » Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:07 pm

I think Mike is a bit tough on himself. The wind was strong, but can well imagine that he and the plane was capable of the x-wind blowing at the time. He could not have foreseen the gust that caused this accident.

Luckily, he is the kind of guy that will just bounce back.
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Re: Draco down

Unread post by 117 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:13 pm

Lets switch shoes:

Will you attempt the same, in same aircraft, in same conditions?

No? Is it because you dont have time on type?

(We'll switch off the camera's for the reply)
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Re: Draco down

Unread post by Chalkie » Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:29 pm

frikie wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:07 pm
I think Mike is a bit tough on himself. The wind was strong, but can well imagine that he and the plane was capable of the x-wind blowing at the time. He could not have foreseen the gust that caused this accident.

Luckily, he is the kind of guy that will just bounce back.
Sorry Frikie, the gust did not cause the problem. The pilot did.

Mike is right to be harsh on himself. The accident was avoidable and he put his wife in danger.

Just imagine there was a fire....
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Re: Draco down

Unread post by frikie » Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:56 pm

117 wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:13 pm
Lets switch shoes:

Will you attempt the same, in same aircraft, in same conditions?

No? Is it because you dont have time on type?

(We'll switch off the camera's for the reply)
Probably yes. I have flown turbine tail draggers in winds similar as posted earlier in the thread (Probably even worse).
It is easily conceivable to me that it could be possible that there was a fluke wind that caused this accident.
Sorry folks, in my books I don’t believe he thought that it might or might not work. I’m convinced that he was comfortable with the decision.

Hindsight is 20/20.
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Re: Draco down

Unread post by 117 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:11 pm

Indeed, 20/20 is always the end game.

I have, however, landed in cross winds to realise i should have never taken off in cross winds

Edit: my above post prior to this one wasn't aimed at you frikie. Apologies if you thought it was
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Re: Draco down

Unread post by Chalkie » Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:21 pm

frikie wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:56 pm
I have flown turbine tail draggers in winds similar as posted earlier in the thread (Probably even worse).
It is easily conceivable to me that it could be possible that there was a fluke wind that caused this accident.
Sorry folks, in my books I don’t believe he thought that it might or might not work. I’m convinced that he was comfortable with the decision.

Hindsight is 20/20.
OK, we will agree to disagree.

When I looked at the video the left wing was higher than the right, standing still. When the takeoff run started there was no correction to this condition and no yawing into wind. The prevailing wind caused an early lift off and a roll to the right. There after it was game over.

Perhaps the technique used for a crosswind takeoff needs to be looked at. He said that, not me. Full aileron into the wind, just might be part of that brief.

Again. He was sure lucky there was no fire.
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Re: Draco down

Unread post by 20048 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:45 pm

Hi Frikkie
I don't know the pilot (or you!). I see lots of opinions but as soon as I saw the footage I had the same view as Chalkie. The left wing was already visably higher before the take off roll and must have been noticed in the cabin?
For someone with so much experience, this is a real schoolboy error. He mentioned using the rudder to try and correct (secondary effect) but it was always far too late......
It seems a bizarre mistake
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Re: Draco down

Unread post by John.com » Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:19 am

homebuilt wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:27 pm
When there is doubt there is no doubt. Don't do it. By Mikes own admission "I should have used the other runway". What more is there to say. His brain told him something was wrong and he still went ahead and paid the price. You are normally quite an intelligent human being otherwise you would not be flying. Why then do you not listen to your brain when it says don't do it.
I am greatly intrigued that mature, experienced and skilled pilots are even having this discussion, wondering why he did something so foolish, particularly when, in Mike's own words, the wind was so strong, he could barely taxi his aircraft!

Besides attempting to takeoff and fly in extreme weather conditions, it is patently evident that he was taking off on the WRONG runway and directly in front of the tower and terminal building in order to have the most impact on his 'audience' by conducting one of his signature Draco near-vertical takeoffs. Taking off on the correct yet more distant runway would have meant losing the 'crowd appeal' of his dramatic takeoff in Draco.

So, simply put, his desire to be a showman overrode his good, safe piloting skills and extensive experience, along with his obligation, as the PIC, to ensure the safety of all on board, above everything, and without exception.

Any pilot who can't relate to this is not being truthful to themselves! I am the FIRST to put my hand up. Sadly, the odds were stacked too high against Mike on this day.

So, THIS is the lesson I take away from this accident: SAFETY BEFORE SHOWMANSHIP - ALWAYS. NO EXCEPTIONS

PS: Please don't get me wrong. I am one of Mike's biggest fans!
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