Seneca accident at Stellenbosch 2020-02-08

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Re: Seneca accident at Stellenbosch this morning

Unread post by Whirly » Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:27 am

Didn't somebody put a Baron in a field after take-off from Lanseria a few years ago because a seatbelt was outside the door and was casing a huge noise banging against the door? :?

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Re: Seneca accident at Stellenbosch this morning

Unread post by Rotor kop » Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:45 am

Remember that fatal R44 accident when they flew into hangar (Rand i think) because pilot panicked after her door popped open on takeoff. Seems to be many accidents related to little things that should have been a non event :(
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Re: Seneca accident at Stellenbosch this morning

Unread post by jimdavis » Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:11 am

Whirly wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:27 am
Didn't somebody put a Baron in a field after take-off from Lanseria a few years ago because a seatbelt was outside the door and was casing a huge noise banging against the door? :?

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It happened to me in a Twin Comanche on takeoff from Porto Amelia, in the north of Mozambique. It's bloody terrifying - it sounds like a machine gun in the cockpit.

And in England the door popped on a Cherokee soon after lift off. Both pilot and pax were killed because fixing it seemed more important than flying the aeroplane.

But we would well to remember that seat belts out, and doors popping, are not the fault of the aeroplane. 8)

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Re: Seneca accident at Stellenbosch this morning

Unread post by Iceberg » Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:48 am

Sad to see a nice machine like this in that state. Similar to mine.

In the last 24 years I've had all those scenarios happen, Front baggage door, front and back doors. No issue, just slow down, fly the aircraft, land and fix the problem. I've learnt to check the doors religiously now.
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Re: Seneca accident at Stellenbosch this morning

Unread post by apollo11 » Sun Feb 09, 2020 12:59 pm

I wonder if perhaps the pilot attempted a ground loop, Stellenbosch, not the longest runway 762 meters, 2500', perhaps by the time he decided to abort there was insufficient runway remaining and he attempted a ground loop
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Re: Seneca accident at Stellenbosch this morning

Unread post by MLyons » Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:18 pm

FASH.jpg
apollo11 wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 12:59 pm
I wonder if perhaps the pilot attempted a ground loop, Stellenbosch, not the longest runway 762 meters, 2500', perhaps by the time he decided to abort there was insufficient runway remaining and he attempted a ground loop
Runway 01 is a bit of a challenge when in a situation such as this pilot found himself, methinks.
Firstly, it has a not insignificant slope which doesn't help when trying to slow down a heavy aerie.
Secondly, it is not the longest runway.
Thirdly, the fence at the end is pretty close and the road and fence and field beyond are on the other side doesn't look as attractive as the open field just to the left of the runway.
The field between the threshold of 19 and the hangars appears to offer an extra 100 or so metres of what looks like decent run-off and looks like a more attractive option than going through a fence and over road with its usual raised embankments etc.

Unfortunately, that field that appears to be an alternative run-off option has a long storm water drainage ditch concealed within that you only notice when you hear the U/C being bent backwards.

Can't blame the pilot for taking what appears at the time to be the best option.
Just a shame the ditch was there - it would have maybe given him just enough extra distance to swing left and bring it all to a less noisy halt.
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Re: Seneca accident at Stellenbosch this morning

Unread post by KingOfBotswana » Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:16 pm

Whirly wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:27 am
Didn't somebody put a Baron in a field after take-off from Lanseria a few years ago because a seatbelt was outside the door and was casing a huge noise banging against the door? :?

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Was a Baron 58 out of Thabazimbi if I remember correctly . The seatbelt buckle makes a hell of a noise .
Was a beautiful machine
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Re: Seneca accident at Stellenbosch this morning

Unread post by KingOfBotswana » Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:18 pm

Whirly wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:27 am
Didn't somebody put a Baron in a field after take-off from Lanseria a few years ago because a seatbelt was outside the door and was casing a huge noise banging against the door? :?

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Re: Seneca accident at Stellenbosch this morning

Unread post by Trent772B » Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:29 pm

Flying Madiba out of a confined in an Oryx in 96’, the door popped open after lift off before transition. Stof en kak en hare everywhere, handed control over to the other pilot and closed the door. Exciting but not serious
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Re: Seneca accident at Stellenbosch this morning

Unread post by Airwayfreak » Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:05 pm

Rotor kop wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:45 am
Remember that fatal R44 accident when they flew into hangar (Rand i think) because pilot panicked after her door popped open on takeoff. Seems to be many accidents related to little things that should have been a non event :(
I thought it was a hydraulic issue.
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Re: Seneca accident at Stellenbosch this morning

Unread post by Vogoff » Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:54 pm

Romeo E.T. wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:44 pm
flypiper wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:13 pm
Eina had a simular situation , and it flys happily with door unlatched .
50% agree, the aft baggage popping open, is a nuisance startle effect only, flies without any issues
I've had my fair share of doors and hatches popping open and strange sounds:
  • Cowling on a Tomahawk during the takeoff roll
  • Left side inspection hatch on the Mooney after takeoff (absolutely sure I closed it properly like I do every time, but the mechanism to lock it can be a bit fiddly)
  • Passenger door pops open at 9,500 feet (my passenger had got his shirt caught in the door and when he leaned forward it pulled the latch)
  • Strange rattling sound from the back of the aircraft (turned out it was the tow bar resting on another metal object)
  • Strange banging from the passenger side wing (turned out my passenger's camera strap had become caught in the door)

Thing is: the more dangerous problems I knew exactly what to do - because they happened right in front of me and diagnosing the issue was easy. The simpler but hard to diagnose problems were scarier - was I about to lose a flap or was my elevator about to fall off? I didn't feel a need to panic, but they were still very distracting. The camera strap was especially distracting because it wasn't very obvious, meaning we were straining to identify the source.

So I have full sympathy with a pilot who hears a bang and loud noise and decides to stop on the runway when it seems there is enough runway left, only to realise too late that there wasn't as much runway as (s)he thought there was. Our airplanes don't have the stopping ability we have become used to in our cars...
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Re: Seneca accident at Stellenbosch this morning

Unread post by Rotor kop » Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:29 pm

Airwayfreak wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:05 pm
Rotor kop wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:45 am
Remember that fatal R44 accident when they flew into hangar (Rand i think) because pilot panicked after her door popped open on takeoff. Seems to be many accidents related to little things that should have been a non event :(
I thought it was a hydraulic issue.
That was also a suspected reason that she accidentally turned it off after door opened. I often forget to close my door, especially in summer when chopper is hot. On takeoff and usually around translational the door then move open....can be quite alarming if not used to it.
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Re: Seneca accident at Stellenbosch this morning

Unread post by biffvj » Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:08 pm

Part of training is the experience of things that could occur, especially during takeoff and landing when distractions could be fatal. Popping the door is Included in pilot proficiency training at some schools. Skydivers and skydrivers have no problem with open door policies.
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Re: Seneca accident at Stellenbosch this morning

Unread post by Still_Learning » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:17 am

During my (still ongoing) PPL training my instructor slipped his arm behind me on crosswind and popped my door open. I thought he was just buggering around until he pointed out my reaction which was the wrong one - lesson learned... aviate first.
Of course a door popping is easier to manage than an unidentified knocking/banging that could (to the low-hour pilot) be any kind of accident-inducing failure
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Re: Seneca accident at Stellenbosch this morning

Unread post by Kotze101 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:29 am

Whilst doing my PPL training on a solo x-country flight I had the passenger side door of the R22 vibrate open not once but three times in the same flight - I simply leaned over to close it and carried on flying...
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